Ignition switch. “The tow of shame”

[Xevin]

My first roadside tow ever, in any car

Left the lights on all day at work. Turn the key and nothing happens. Only thing that happens is oil and alternator light illuminates in key positions 2 and 3.

Can’t jump it or bump it to start. So I put my AAA to use.

The next day I put the key in, to start. Same issue, nothing. I jiggled the key and Bam. Fired right up. I did the key jiggly thing the previous day with no results.

It feels like the key is not turning all the way over to make the magic happen. Maybe a sticky tumbler? So I put some graphite in the ignition. I also cleaned the key of any sticky residue. So far so good.

Is this typical behavior of a failing ignition switch? I would rather replace now then Xatie dealing with it on a random drive.

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[OTTO 1303]

Had similar problem, lights but no start when turned to START position. The issue started as intermittent, but one day - total failure.

After closely inspecting the electrical portion of the ignition switch, and actually rebuilding (cleaning contacts and lubricating) and removing any of my suspicion of an electrical issue, I then evaluated the tumbler drum.

The tab of the tumbler drum that inserts into and drives the electrical contacts was bent, preventing the drum from fully rotating the ignition switch to the START position.

I carefully bent the tab back to a straight position and this corrected the NO START issue. No issues since repair.
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74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG

[Xevin]

That’s great Otto. Thanks the detailed explanation. Just went to start the bug. Nothing again. I’ll keep after it. But I have a busy week ahead of other priorities. So not going to be a lot of time to spend on bug.
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[Xevin]

I should post this.

74 standard beetle. Thanks for all trouble shooting advice.
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[OTTO 1303]

In addition, I cleaned EVERY connection feeding the ignition switch 12V and every connection from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid, and avoided the "Hard Start Relay" modification.

No issues since repair

Good Luck
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74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG

[Cusser]

Still could be the electrical part of the ignition switch. Investigate.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Xevin]

I’m going go out and limb here and say this is my non start issue

I didn’t realize 1974 (standard) switch changed mid year. Can anyone tell me the correct part number? I need to call around town and pick up a different one. I assume since the spline nut was 27mm it’s an early switch.

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[Xevin]

Just picked up a switch. They had both styles on the shelf. I’ll put one of China’s best on for a bandaid and hunt down a NOS to replace it.

Part # 111 905 865K
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[ashman40]

The problem I have had with the Chinese(?) aftermarket ignition switches are the small area for the internal electrical contacts. They burn quickly (months) and you end up with a similar problem. The problem is caused by a large current flow thru the ignition switch circuits relative to the contact area of the switch terminals.

You cannot easily change the contact area inside the switch (stock OE switches had larger contact areas), so you need to look at reducing the current flow to extend the life of the switch.
The Hard Start Relay (Bosch style relay) installed under the rear seat does exactly this for the #50 circuit (red/black wire). A very low current passes thru the #50 circuit of the ignition switch to the HSR. At the HSR a high current circuit passes thru the relay to energize the starter solenoid. This protects the ignition switch contacts from burning.

I recommend doing the same for the #15 circuit (black wire) which starts at the ignition switch and runs to the fuse box (fuse #11 or #12). Install another Bosch style relay here between the ignition switch and the fuse box to reduce the current flow thru the ignition switch to extend the life of the #15 contacts inside the switch.

Here is a simple diagram showing how to wire a Bosch-style "cube" relay:

The red #30 wire runs to a constant 12v source like fuses #8 & #9 on the fuse box or the battery positive (+) terminal (for HSR).
The blue wire is the OUTPUT which connects to the device to be powered (fuse box or starter solenoid).
The yellow wire comes from the (ignition) switch.
Brown is a ground wire to any handy chassis ground.
When power comes in over the yellow wire the relay is energized. It closes contacts between #30 and #87 allowing current to flow out the blue wire.
The #87a terminal is not used in this case. 87a is connected to 30 while the relay is not energized.

These relays are cheap (less than $10 if you shop around). You only need a 20A relay, but if you find 30A or 40A ones for cheap they can also be used. With a little time and effort you can protect your ignition switch internal contacts and extend the life of your new ignition switch for years.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Xevin]

I put my new switch in and it acts as the old one did. Only idiot lights. No nothing else. Talking with a friend to troubleshoot wiring. I don’t have much time to do all that today. Then had a chat with my buddy Bill from Sparx Werks. He tells me some easy things to check out. Like the fuses. I never checked the fuses. Ashman40 posts up this wonderful write up to troubleshoot. He mentioned the #11 and 12 fuse. I go out and check them. They look fine. I pull them off and clean up the fuse contact points. Turn key and BAM. Fires right up. Starts every time. Thanks you ashman40 and everyone for your help.

Side note. My blinkers don’t work now. Everything else seems find like headlights and wipers. The blinker indicator on speedo lights up solid but the
turn signals don’t blink. Ugh.
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[polypetalous]

Went through some similar pains lately and was also graciously guided by Ashman...
Tell you what, just the act of plugging and unplugging the steering wheel (turn signal etc.) plugs form below the steering column and removing ALL fuses to clean up the fuse tabs and fuse ends has virtually cured ALL my electrical issues.

Turn signals work now, car starts MUCH stronger etc.

I imagine if a person was so inclined, and were to clean ALL connections, grounds etc. it'd probably make a decent difference.

I get eager to change parts and sometimes forget the "start simple" mantra that seems to work best with these cars.

Ben

[ashman40]

[Xevin]

Thank you Ashman40. Stay with me while I fumble around with my over thinking and just dumb deductions

When this bug wouldn’t start the other day when I had it towed. I never thought
a fuse in the box would be the culprit. Because it shouldn’t be.

After my fail, replacing the switch to start car. You got me thinking with this bit of information. I do have meters and test lights. I was headed in that direction next. I will also explore if the PO did anything weird. I haven’t found any wiring hacks but doesn’t mean I didn’t recognize something out of the norm yet.

[Xevin]

To recap what’s all been going on when I replaced ignition switch from the beginning. I’ve been busy and not a lot of time to work on the bug.

Replaced ignition switch. Still doesn’t do anything.

Cleaned up contacts on #11 and #12. The car fires up. Not sure why that may have caused the car to start. But now the turn signals don’t blink. Only the green light glows solid on the speedo when I turn the blinker on left or right.

A couple days later. I take out fuses and put back in to make sure they were seated correctly. I start the car and now the oil and alt light does not illuminate when key is in #2 position. I turn over to #3 position and car starts but now the oil and gen light stay on I drive around and nothing changes.

Next day I start car and both oil and Alt light illuminates but this time the oil light goes off as it should. Alt light stays on. Drive around the block nothing changes. So I grab two new fuses out of the glove box and replace them.

Now all the lights work as they should, including turn signals

One thing I need to mention and I forgot until I turned on the emergency flasher last night. The flasher doesn’t work. It didn’t work when I bought the car. My buddy fiddled with it and got it to work but that only lasted a month. That was 3 years ago
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[67rustavenger]

I hate electrical Gremlins.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[heimlich]

There's also a 111 905 865 L and 171 905 865 that look very similar to that switch. Many of the newer ones do not have all the features of the old ones as there are a couple of missing pins.

A good thing to do, if never done, is to take all of the fuses out and clean the terminals on the fuse box.

Carry a bit of wire with clamps and you can wire you own car to start at the fuse box.
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[iowegian]

I am puzzled.
How did leaving the headlights on all day break the ignition switch?
Maybe you merely have a dead battery--------just tryin' to help here.

[modok]

Possibly.... the huge amp draw of trying to start with a low voltage battery killed the ignition switch. It can happen. Or, at least... just the straw that broke the camels back.
I had one die last year when I was running a questionable battery, probably was a factor, no big deal.

My stock switch is still in place, not used, I put a universal ignition switch under the dash. not that they are great either, I'm now on my fourth one, they only seem to last about 5 years, but, I'm not going easy on them. I bet if I used a button for the starter they would last a lot longer. If I was using the stock switch I might use a push button or relay for the starter to ease the load on it.

[Xevin]

Iowegian- Mentioned in my first post. The bug started the next day. I did have to jiggle the key a bit before it fired up. It started strong, like usual. Later that day the the no start issue happened and no amount of key jiggle, body English, sweet talking, cursing, crying, deep breathing, begging, cursing more, followed more sweet talking was going to start that car. The beers of defeat tasted pretty good after.

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[OTTO 1303]

Did you test continuity of the START position before installing into column?

It could still be a mechanical or electrical issue. By all means, check each wire and connection in the START circuit.

My issue was similar to yours. I thoroughly tested the START position of the switch (repeatedly) on the bench before reinstalling and was able to correct both the mechanical and electrical issue. Once I was confident in the assembly, then reinstalled, and no issues since.

Good Luck
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74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG