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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: AAZ Westy fuel issues (SOLVED) |
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My AAZ 1.9 is acting like it's running out of fuel.
It starts fine, idles fine, and drives fine for a few miles. Then it begins to act as though it's running out of fuel. The more I press on the accelerator, the quicker it falters. It starts with a slight hesitation as I accelerate. A half mile or so, it hesitates more, then more, etc.
The issue only gets worse over time (a few minutes). Eventually it won't even idle. I can start it again but the issue is still there.
I have changed the fuel filter twice. I thought this was it but apparently not as it still acts the same.
My guess is that there is crud blocking the fuel inside the tank which was new last year. To determine if its the tank screen I may rig up a fuel can (with clean diesel fuel) and run it to the pump - see if its OK. If it is, I guess it's time to pull the tank - Ugg.
Any other suggestions welcome. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale).
Last edited by Gizmoman on Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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You might want to check the fuel cut off solenoid and attendant wiring. An electric inline pump is a nice addition to these diesels to help with fuel starvation diagnostics and filter changes. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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old_man Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018 Posts: 1381 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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I had a shut off solenoid give me similar symptoms except it would only allow me to drive for a few seconds.
Fuel tank vent plugged? |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:47 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Thanks for the feedback. I should mention that I replaced my home oil-fired furnace with natural gas. There was some fuel left in the buried 500 gallon tank which I transfered to my truck and the van. I should have at least strained it first but I didn't. Pretty sure it's crud.
I wish there were no screen in the tank as it's such a bear to remove. The filter is a spin-on type and quite easy to replace.
I had an in-line pump several years ago but removed it . It was also a source of plugging, and did a few times.
As for the cut-off solenoid, the wires and connection are solid and I doubt it would cause the symptoms I described which feels like slowly deteriorating fuel delivery.
Would something in the injection pump cause this issue - for instance as it warms up? _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1491 Location: pnw
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Gizmoman wrote: |
Would something in the injection pump cause this issue - for instance as it warms up? |
yes, the shutoff solenoid.
you can pull it (24mm wrench i think) and remove the spring and the little plunger end piece and should be able to run it - just be prepared to stall the van to turn it off.
easy enough to test before diving into a full tank removal, etc. _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:46 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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valvecovergasket wrote: |
Gizmoman wrote: |
Would something in the injection pump cause this issue - for instance as it warms up? |
yes, the shutoff solenoid.
you can pull it (24mm wrench i think) and remove the spring and the little plunger end piece and should be able to run it - just be prepared to stall the van to turn it off.
easy enough to test before diving into a full tank removal, etc. |
Not to be argumentative but how could a solenoid deliver less fuel over time. I can see how it could be either on or off, but not partially on or partially off.
A new one is cheap and possibly worth replacing though. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1491 Location: pnw
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:01 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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i think its ability to hold open becomes intermittent. not only that but the fuel required to sort of stay running may exist in the pump for a small period of time between those intermittent cycles.
i had one fail on our van's previous diesel, and it acted much the same way. it wasnt a hard on/off like youd imagine.
as i said before spending any money id pull your current one and see if you can run it without the little plunger in place. cost = $0 before throwing parts at it to be sure
but, of course, could be the dirty furnace fuel too i suppose but itd be a bummer to pull the tank only to find out it was a 5 minute solenoid swap the whole time...
anyway, best of luck! _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:00 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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I will take your advice and appreciate the detailed response. Thanks much.
I'll post the results as soon as I can. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Spring, plunger and O-ring removed and the valve is back in. I didn't hook up the 12 volts as it may burn out the coils (having no plunger).
Now it won't start at all. I loosened a few injector nuts in case it needs to have some air bled. No fuel comes out of the loosened nuts.
What am I missing? _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:06 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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You say you removed the spring, plunger and o-ring. Maybe it was only a typo, but the o-ring needs to be in place to seal the solenoid to the distributor head.
Depending on the method used for filling the pump, sometimes it can take a lot of cranking. |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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OK, I'll out the o-ring back in and let you know. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Libby, the O-ring did the trick as far as starting - thanks.
I was really hoping for the solenoid to be the issue, and appreciate the suggestion. However, the issue is still there with the solenoid otherwise gutted. After about three minutes of driving it begins to drop out when I press hard on the accelerator. It starts as a stumble at about 3/4 throttle, quickly dropping to 1/2 throttle and eventually any throttle at all. If I let it sit for five minutes, it's better, but only for about 30 seconds.
I will need to buy a new solenoid anyway as I had to use a chisel and hammer on one of the flats to get it to budge. Besides, I believe this is the stock valve and shows signs of wear on the plunger.
I think the can of clean diesel and a hose to the pump is a good test. If it runs fine for 30 minutes, my tank screen is plugged or something is stuck inside the feed line. Any other theories are welcome. I really don't want to pull the tank as it's nearly full. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Gizmoman wrote: |
I think the can of clean diesel and a hose to the pump is a good test. If it runs fine for 30 minutes, my tank screen is plugged or something is stuck inside the feed line. |
That's the next thing I'd do. |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Thanks for the encouragement Waldo.
I'll get to it in a day or so. I'm in the middle of tiling the shower and need to stay with it. My van is my daily and I will miss having it ready to go. Up till now it's been flawless.
I'll post back when I do the can/hose test in a few days.
Meanwhile, I've ordered a new solenoid from AutohausAZ for 20 bucks. Local flaps didn't have one in stock. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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Ok, the guest bath reno is done and I'm back to finding out the fuel (diesel) starvation issue.
As you recall, it was suggested that I gut the cut-off solenoid to make sure that wasn't it - against my better judgement, I did, and it clearly was not the issue. However, as the solenoid was possibly original, I had to use a chisel against the wrench flats to remove it. No big deal, I bought a shiny new replacement for 20 bucks.
So, this morning I started the van and moved it to a good spot for possible tank removal and inspection of the screen inside the tank, or blockage in the fuel line. Because the solenoid is gutted, I had to drop the clutch in 3rd to stop the engine.
I installed the new solenoid (with O-ring) and now it won't fire - not even a hint of wanting to. I cracked an injector line nut to let out any air - crank, nothing, not even fuel at the nut.
>I have 12 volts at the solenoid.
>It does retract the plunger when I hold it in my hand and against engine ground.
>I do have the o-ring inserted around the brass ferrule
The new solenoid is Bosch Diesel Shutoff Solenoid/Valve; At Injection Pump
P/N: 0330001015.
Sadly, I tossed the old plunger and spring knowing a new one was on the way. If I recall, the plunger did look slightly different but not much. The old valve body and new valve body are identical where it counts. Both will accept the new plunger, spring, and o-ring. However, the engine won't start regardless of which one is installed.
Just to get it running, I reinstalled the new valve and o-ring without the plunger or spring and it still won't start.
I should admit that when I first installed the new valve, it had the O-ring on it already and the O-ring from the original was still sitting on the seat inside the pump. It was tough to install but I did. Is there a possibility I damaged something inside the pump by doing this? I looked and the seat appears to be a solid machined surface.
I discovered the duplicate O-ring (before doing all the stuff above) and removed it - no damage to either one of the O-rings.
Any help appreciated. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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I doubt you damaged anything with the doubled o-rings.
Is the pump full of fuel? Do you have clear lines on supply/return? Can you see if fuel is moving in them when the engine is cranking? |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:42 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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?Waldo? wrote: |
I doubt you damaged anything with the doubled o-rings.
Is the pump full of fuel? Do you have clear lines on supply/return? Can you see if fuel is moving in them when the engine is cranking? |
Waldo, thanks for the prompt reply.
No, I don't have clear lines. I just went to McMaster and all I see (that is flexible) is the stuff with a liner. I've tried it before and the liner is a real pain. If you want to suggest something else - please do. I've never had issues with air intrusion but having clear lines would help diagnose things for sure.
As far as the pump having fuel, it's wet where I removed the valve but not overflowing. I just started the van this morning and moved it to the front of the garage, took out the old (gutted) valve and installed the new one.
Should I dump a bit of diesel in the valve hole? _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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I squirted some diesel in the valve socket till it overflowed, installed the valve, still nothing - not even a hint.
Just to be sure the valve is working - with the key on, the valve clicks loudly when I remove/touch the wire.
It acts like it did when I left the O-ring out several weeks ago. I inspected the O-ring under a magnifying glass and it looks fine.
What is really weird is that the engine wont start even with the old valve in and gutted! _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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The clear lines I use (and have used for more than a decade) was called Tygon and Tygothane and now has been renamed Versilon.
For the supply to pump: https://www.mcmaster.com/5549K34/?fbclid=IwAR2emO9...5u_w9bs508
For the return from pump to tank: https://www.mcmaster.com/5195T65/?fbclid=IwAR1mdjs...797wXJCkzg
For between the injectors: https://www.mcmaster.com/5549K31/?fbclid=IwAR2HDTV...3lzh6DnCwI
It is excellent hose that is very resilient and lasts a long time. I have used it on many diesel engines with excellent results long term.
Clear lines on supply and return would let you know at a glance if it is a supply/prime issue. When the engine cranks the fuel moves in the supply/return regardless of the stop solenoid's operation.
You may have lost prime on the pump when you opened it up. Gravity may have let the fuel in the pump drain back to the tank either direction. For priming the pump, I have a spare IN bolt and banjo fitting that runs to an outboard primer bulb. I attach that bolt and fitting in place of the OUT bolt and fitting and then pull fuel through the filter and pump. I then swap in the OUT bolt and banjo. |
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1554 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: AAZ Westy fuel issues? |
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It started!
Apparently there was more air introduced than I thought.
Now on to the original fuel starvation issue. I was wondering if a failed gas cap could cause a vacuum on the tank. It seems to run great for a few miles and gets linearly worse. Sitting for a while starts the the story over.
I'm hesitant to drive it till I find something wrong. I barely made it back last time.
BTW - thanks for the hose links. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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