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Brake servo?
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Nicholas D
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Hello all, I'm having a sudden issue with the brakes on my 71 westfalia and after searching here and looking under my bus I'm just looking for some confirmation (possibly) about my suspicion. The brakes were working just fine when pretty much all of the sudden the pedal became much harder to push. The brakes still work but definitely require a lot more pedal pressure.

When I apply the brakes it doesn't pull on way or the other but just takes longer to slow down. When I removed the vacuum hose to the servo to make sure the check valve on that line was holding pressure a good amount of brake fluid leaked out of the line. There is definitely still vacuum on the other end of the line.

Does this sound like the servo may have failed, or a possible seal on the master cylinder? Brake work is definitely new to me so any advice would be appreciated.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Sounds like you need to get your booster rebuilt. Much better than buying new Chinese. You might also get a $70 Brazilian master cylinder while you’re at it. Don’t forget to order two bungs and two condoms
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Nicholas D wrote:
Does this sound like the servo may have failed, or a possible seal on the master cylinder?


Perhaps both. Significant fluid in the servo means the master cylinder seals have failed. The servo should still work with
some brake fluid in it, but if you have the vacuum connection in the usual upper left position, and you have fluid in
the vacuum hose, that means your servo is just about full of brake fluid, and that's a LOT. How's the level in your
refill reservoir? Maybe the servo will work again if you take it out and clean it, but maybe not.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Good point. Brake fluid is water soluble so you could wash it out with soap and water. Then be sure to get all the water out before continuing
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Nicholas D
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice, I'll get it off and see if cleaning it helps. I'll also see if I can find any damaged seals in the master. The current servo has this sticker on it which makes me think it's not the original and therefore maybe a lesser quality aftermarket one? That being said, if cleaning it doesn't help would it still be worth sending out for rebuild? I'm all for doing that rather than putting a new one on after reading about potential fitment issues, quality, etc. but if it's not the original would it be worth doing?

There might be a part number on it but it's pretty hard to decipher. Thanks again!


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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

That's an original '71 bus ATE servo.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Looks original. I wouldn’t waste any time. Order a new Brazilian MC and get your booster into a rebuilder.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Original Brake Servo from my 71 Tintop. There is a weep hole at the bottom of the Master Brake Cylinder. Brake Fluid was weeping from the weep hole. Lowering level of brake fluid in the reservoir was first indication there was a leak somewhere. I was able to soak out all the brake fluid in the servo (left in place on The Bus) with rags, replaced the Master Brake Cylinder (including O-ring between the servo and brake cylinder) with an NOS purchased off of The Samba. and all is working great four years on since the "repair".


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

https://www.busdepot.com/211611021aabr $69.95

https://www.busdepot.com/211611817a (2 each) $3.25

https://www.busdepot.com/211611833c (2 each) $2.49

https://www.busdepot.com/113945515g (2 each) $7.95
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DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
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Nicholas D
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

This is great, thanks so much! It definitely happened shortly after I topped off the reservoir so perhaps I exacerbated an existing problem. Either way, I'll clean it at least and rebuilt if needed. I think I remember from a search that someone mentioned a reputable servo rebuilder, but if anyone knows offhand it'd be much appreciated. Thanks again!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

As Kreemoweet suggested....my servo worked again after I removed all the brake fluid...and it really was not the servo, but the MBC which allowed brake fluid to migrate into the servo. In any case, you may want to consider soaking the bolts/nuts on your servo/MBC as they look pretty rusted. The NOS MBC I purchased off of The Samba came complete with both switches, reservoir grommets and o-ring. My MBC was the original from 1971 which I had rebuilt with OG rebuild kit some 25+ years ago or so. Your MBC looks after market....so presumably would fail earlier??
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Nicholas D
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Quick question - I have everything off or loose with the exception of the reservoir on top of the MC. I'm having a hard time working the line from the top reservoir off of it and wondering how the grommets attach it to the actual master? Can I just work the reservoir off gently? Screwdriver indicates the area I'm talking about. Thanks!

Based on the part description it looks like it can just be worked off, guess I just need a little confirmation before I start pulling.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

They pop off but use a wood implement that won’t gouge or puncture the brake reservoir. Steady pressure upwards to pop it out
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Nicholas D
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick reply. I was able to get the hose off so at least I can work those off on the bench now! Appreciate the wooden implement suggestion as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to clean the inside of my lower reservoir while I wait on my backordered tail light switches? Thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Simple green and hot water, maybe a hand full of pea gravel in there as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

They get brittle with age and shatter. If yours does, I think that on a 1971 the part number is 211 611 313 /H.

https://www.justkampers.com/us/211611313h-brake-fl...-1972.html

https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/us/211611313h-brake-fluid-reservoir-for-servo-brakes.html

https://www.csp-shop.com/en/wheels-brakes/brake-fluid-reservoir-611-313-211h-27943a.html

https://kieftenklok.nl/shop/en/front-page/t2-1968-...-72-detail

https://www.bus-ok.de/Type2-bay-expension-tank-bay-with-brake-servo-till-872-OEMnr-211611313-H#false
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

On the other hand, Bus Depot lists the part as the "J" version:
https://www.busdepot.com/211611313j
I wonder wuts up with that?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Brake servo? Reply with quote

I took the part number off the fiche. The only thing I can say on this is that on my 1977 I had to return the one BD sent me, and get the correct one from Bughaus. Bughaus doesn't list one for a 1971. That was 10 years ago and BD does mention the issue a the bottom of the page. Compare the old one before buying.

H
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J
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