| Author |
Message |
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
 |
|
I have a full gauge set that I borrowed from Autozone with a vacuum pump. I used this to pull the vacuum but was reluctant to use it to fill the system since I'm using Red-Tek and I was concerned about contaminating it due to most other people using R134. Maybe this isn't a concern? I basically did it the same way I did it when I got it up and running after the Subaru conversion. Only difference is that this time I did not replace the expansion valve. Something is definitely not right and I'm not sure where to start troubleshooting. Perhaps I should replace the expansion valve and try again maybe with R134? I'm not sure how to jump the low pressure switch, or where it is.
For the receiver /drier, I forgot to note which hose was the IN hose when I took the old one off. The guy at Napa said it was the one from the condenser so that's how I hooked the new one up. Maybe it's backwards? The biggest bummer is that between the Red-Tek and the fact that it's a Vanagon, I don't think that any A/C shop will touch it so I'm on my own to figure this out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16882
Location: sticksville, ct.
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
yes, the inlet would come from the condenser, outlet to the inlet side of the evaporator.
don't know what to say. you didn't happen to leave a plug in the hoses/drier did you?
i want to see photos of your manifold gauges and how you've hooked these up including how you're adding the refrigerant
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
skills@eurocarsplus Here are some pics of what I used.
I only used the gauge that is shown hooked up to pull the vacuum. I then connected the Red-Tek can to fill the system, and checked the pressure with the gauge shown. After 1/2 cans the needle was about 1/4 of the way into the red area on the gauge.
This is pretty much how I did it last time and the system worked fine.
I ordered a new expansion valve and plan to disconnect the hoses again to see if I left a plug in them. Unlikely since I was using bright orange foam earplugs that stick out of the hose end so hard to miss.
Since the hose blew right upstream from the expansion valve it seems like this might be the problem, as others have suggested. I shouldn't have take a chance on it.
Would a bad expansion valve cause the compressor to not kick in? If not then I clearly have another problem on my hands.
BTW, thanks everyone for the replies, it really helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16882
Location: sticksville, ct.
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:10 am Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
ok
when you went to fill the system are you sure you have the low side open and the high side closed?
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| Yes, because I disconnected the big gauge and put the cap back on the high side. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Farf
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2009
Posts: 463
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| RufusRockwell wrote: |
I only used the gauge that is shown hooked up to pull the vacuum. I then connected the Red-Tek can to fill the system, and checked the pressure with the gauge shown. After 1/2 cans the needle was about 1/4 of the way into the red area on the gauge.
|
Before you start swapping parts, if the gauge shown above was the one you were using on the low side and the compressor was not running, the needle being in the red would be quite normal. Someone else mentioned if you were sure the compressor was engaged. 1/2 can of RedTek even with a restriction would not result in excessive head pressure. A blocked drier or TXV would not give you high head pressure either. If your drier or TXV were totally restricted no refrigerant would return to the compressor and you would probably see a vacuum on your low pressure gauge. Conservation of mass dictates that if nothing goes in nothing is coming out. So check the compressor again. Use the better gauges too. I wouldn't worry about cross contamination. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:07 am Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| The compressor was definitely not engaged when I was trying to fill the system. I realized this after the fact and subsequently tested to see if it is getting power and it is not. I'm going to try to jump it today. So, seems likely that this is the problem. I'm wondering now if when I dropped the a/c unit to connect the new hoses if I somehow disturbed the wiring to the compressor. Once I confirm if the compressor can be jumped, I'll start at a/c controls and work my way back from there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Farf
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2009
Posts: 463
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| RufusRockwell wrote: |
| I'm wondering now if when I dropped the a/c unit to connect the new hoses if I somehow disturbed the wiring to the compressor. |
Check the wiring to the evaporator temperature sensor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
So I jumped the compressor and it does engage. I've been trying to trace the path from the fan switch with no success.
I'm pretty sure that the green wire in the picture is the one that sends the message to the compressor. It only has power when the a/c is turned on. I was able to follow it to where it goes into a sheathe of wires (it had power up to this point) then I lose it. It appears to go up to the fuse/relay area at the dash. I found the schematic in the Bentley but honestly, don't know how to read this.
The solid wire that goes from the thermostat into the top of the evaporator was broken (not sure if I did this today or when I dropped the a/c) so I soldered it back together. Don't know if it will function the same soldered...
So, I'm at an impasse since at this point I'm not sure what I'm looking for.
The wires at the dash are so dense, I don't know if I should be looking for any green ones to see where they go (if the green one is even the correct wire- my colors don't match up with Bentley's) or to follow the wire from the compressor back to the computer area and see what I find. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (calling all a/c - wiring gurus) |
|
|
| Did some trouble shooting and found the 3 relays shown on the Bentley diagram (middle of page), tucked nice and deep in the dash right above the ground trees. Turns out the green wire I suspected was to compressor actually turns on the radiator fan so I'm still at a loss as to which wire goes to the compressor, further complicated by the fact that my wire colors don't correspond to Bentley. I knew 85 we're the bastard year but c'mon! So, what I thought would be a simple replace hose, recharge system, go, has turned into a major headache. I know that it has to be something simple, I just have to find it. One factor that I considered...The compressor is not kicking on because there's no pressure in the system, BUT, it's a one wire setup so how would it know if the system is low? I'm at the point where I'd take it to a shop but I'd be hard pressed to find one that would touch it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| I managed to get power to the compressor so it now engages. The problem was the thermostat knob. It was getting power from the green wire but not letting it pass through to the red (which goes to the compressor). I bypassed the thermostat and jumped the green and red wires. This will mean that the compressor will always be on but we always had it on 10 anyways. In hindsight, I should have started with this knob but I didn't know what I was doing - and am still figuring it out. Now the question is, will it charge? Seems that the issue was that I was trying to charge the system but didn't realize the compressor was not engaged. I've got a new expansion valve and some Ret-Tek on the way. Will use the full gauge set this time and check for any obvious blocks when I drop the a/c to install expansion valve. Will keep you posted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16505
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3582
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| RufusRockwell wrote: |
| I managed to get power to the compressor so it now engages. The problem was the thermostat knob. It was getting power from the green wire but not letting it pass through to the red (which goes to the compressor). I bypassed the thermostat and jumped the green and red wires. This will mean that the compressor will always be on but we always had it on 10 anyways. In hindsight, I should have started with this knob but I didn't know what I was doing - and am still figuring it out. Now the question is, will it charge? Seems that the issue was that I was trying to charge the system but didn't realize the compressor was not engaged. I've got a new expansion valve and some Ret-Tek on the way. Will use the full gauge set this time and check for any obvious blocks when I drop the a/c to install expansion valve. Will keep you posted. |
. If you haven’t dropped the older roof mounted system before that lives behind the front seat, find my pictures and post on it.
I showed wiring connectors, an important ground wire that you can’t forget to reinstall, along with other notes. Found it for you.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...y+++system
Lube the blower motor bearings while you have it down, I used saw horses inside the Van to drop the A/C unit down for servicing at a convenient work height.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
Excellent! Don't know how I've never come across this.
If your front - along the windshield vents ever give up on you, I made a 3D printed "controls module" for mine. I could send you the file.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9193074&highlight=#9193074
Near the bottom of the thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3582
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
. They’re fine, it’s the small round vents on the bottom of the rear section that are falling apart on me.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:34 am Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
| RufusRockwell wrote: |
| I managed to get power to the compressor so it now engages. The problem was the thermostat knob. It was getting power from the green wire but not letting it pass through to the red (which goes to the compressor). I bypassed the thermostat and jumped the green and red wires. This will mean that the compressor will always be on but we always had it on 10 anyways. In hindsight, I should have started with this knob but I didn't know what I was doing - and am still figuring it out. Now the question is, will it charge? Seems that the issue was that I was trying to charge the system but didn't realize the compressor was not engaged. I've got a new expansion valve and some Ret-Tek on the way. Will use the full gauge set this time and check for any obvious blocks when I drop the a/c to install expansion valve. Will keep you posted. |
Nice. It’s amazing how many don’t grasp simple electrical troubleshooting ...find the missing 12 volts and trace back to where it stops
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RufusRockwell
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst - FIXED! |
|
|
I got the new expansion valve installed, pulled vacuum and let it sit over night. Added 1 can of Red-Tek to test (I have more on the way) and it blows cold. I'm not going to use the a/c until I get more refrigerant in it. I've got my fingers crossed that the compressor is ok...it's making a bit of an intermittent berzzzing sound at idle. I'm wondering if I should add some oil before I add the remaining Red-Tek. Still some mysteries remain - 30 year old hose blows on one of the hottest days on record - compressor subsequently not engaging - temperature control knob not working (could this be because the wire probe to evaporator broke off near the knob? I'm going to see about tracking down a new one. ). Anyhow, it's working and I'm hoping that it continues to do so.
Thanks everyone for all the replies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3274
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: A/C hose (Red-Tek) burst (Update and new issues) |
|
|
Three comments on refrigerant oil:
1. Make sure you use the same oil as is already in the system;
2. Note that the compressor relies on the oil being delivered to it by the flow of the refrigerant, but that a small (say 20%) reduction in refrigerant from the factory specification results in a large (say 40% to 50%) reduction in the amount of oil flowing through the system. (I learnt this the hard way with a $800 Zexel compressor on an Audi.)
3. Good call not to run the compressor any more for now since the compressor may suffer.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
