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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| Guys I'm in England -Not New England but the old one 3000 miles across the pond |
Is welding different over there?  |
No but finding someone who's any good at anything is getting difficult. The key point I made was "if you were close to me"  |
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Ohio Tom
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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My only issue with any sort of 4bbl EFI conversion is the the same:
You are still feeding a plenum under the throttle body where fuel is added, that will have all the same Icing up, Loading up, un-even pulse that all 4-to-1 VW intakes have. None of those issues go away. I can completely understand why folks have a hard time tuning them on a VW motor.
You just can't get past that Loading up issue unless you move the injectors to the intake ports.
Once you do that, then there is no reason to have a central throttle body (other than turbo). Individual runners rule in N/A applications. |
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Ohio Tom wrote: |
My only issue with any sort of 4bbl EFI conversion is the the same:
You are still feeding a plenum under the throttle body where fuel is added, that will have all the same Icing up, Loading up, un-even pulse that all 4-to-1 VW intakes have. None of those issues go away. I can completely understand why folks have a hard time tuning them on a VW motor.
You just can't get past that Loading up issue unless you move the injectors to the intake ports.
Once you do that, then there is no reason to have a central throttle body (other than turbo). Individual runners rule in N/A applications. |
Yep that's obout it but there is a small window of opportunity for the centre throttle in the 90hp bracket which has benefits over the usual IR carb set ups
I've just put this up in the classifieds
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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I'm pretty confident, done correctly, and patiently understanding the "learning" process, yeilds way more benefit than any carb i've ever worked with..
No more "pat the pedal" cold starts. I turn the key, and within half t revolution, the engine fires right up, runs higher rpm's a few seconds, then idles down to my target idle.
No more hot "hold the pedal down a little, and if that doesn't work...wide open throttle till it runs the loaded up cylinders out" to start method..
I put 3 different carburetors on the same motor last year, not one ran the same, 2 were brand new, and I can't even count how many times I had to adjust the idle screws, and chokes. I can now adjust the Sniper while sitting at a red light in the seat. And that's just if I want to be picky. The Wizard software has it so close, it's not really a necessity.
I agree, there is some fabrication, knowledge, and frustration involved. But for the most part...How many of the naysayers are looking at this post from their smart phone, or laptop ..In which 15-20 yrs ago, they said...No way will I ever have that mess. My rotary phone, Webster's dictionary and 1985 edition of the World Book Encyclopedias have never let me down. Why would I need to try anything different??? Look at ya now...
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Chadabear wrote: |
After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
did you buy from Eric? Or are you using the software in default mode? sorry if you have added that info before. Are you on any of the facebook sniper groups? I think some of those guys would love to see your set up. lots are Holley Techs or mechanics or even sniper tuners and I learn all kinds of little tricks from them |
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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Nice install and glad it ran well for you. The fundamental issues with that particular set up are the throttles are 3 times larger than you need and also the injectors 2x 100lb/hr ? that's 350hp. If the throttles were progresive and the injectors staged then not so bad but I doubt it. Then there's the fuel delivery above the butterflies made worse by the oversize throttles and inj's.
The manifold could be a bathtub style or a two hole design ? Two hole would probably be better.
Electronics ECM housed in the body is not good for long life with heat cycling, condensation, fuel etc.
No integrated ignition control which would help with idle and cold running etc
I noticed Holley have a whole page of refurbished units which makes me think they get a lot of returns.
If you want to know how good your tune is turn off the WB and self learning
you shouldn't notice any difference. Constantly relying on a wideband for major control is not ideal |
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Paul.H wrote: |
Nice install and glad it ran well for you. The fundamental issues with that particular set up are the throttles are 3 times larger than you need and also the injectors 2x 100lb/hr ? that's 350hp. If the throttles were progresive and the injectors staged then not so bad but I doubt it. Then there's the fuel delivery above the butterflies made worse by the oversize throttles and inj's.
The manifold could be a bathtub style or a two hole design ? Two hole would probably be better.
Electronics ECM housed in the body is not good for long life with heat cycling, condensation, fuel etc.
No integrated ignition control which would help with idle and cold running etc
I noticed Holley have a whole page of refurbished units which makes me think they get a lot of returns.
If you want to know how good your tune is turn off the WB and self learning
you shouldn't notice any difference. Constantly relying on a wideband for major control is not ideal |
The 1st thing that popped into my head after reading this was..."WHO CARES??" The Sniper did EXACTLY what was intended, and for the money, and time/effort exhausted in making it run, will forever be more superior to the carburetor. Period.
It does have an integrated ignition control FYI, did you not look at the engine/car?? I am not racing it, I drive it. So why would I search the system for a fault and make it run poorly?? When it clearly doesn't?? It was a simple adjustment of the IAC, and some other minor tuning, which is the whole point of this, and it solved the issue. No pre-heat tubes to bother with, no cold/hot start issues, a turn of the key nd the engine would fire up instantly, smoothest acceleration and power I have seen so far in the 3 years of owning this car. No need to de-sensify and over-think this unit to cause someone else to feel as though it won't work...because clearly, I have mythbusted that. Have you personally installed one on your car, and ran it, tuned it, drove it, and used it on the daily???? |
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| Chadabear wrote: |
After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
No, I bought it from a buddy, who is a Holley dealer locally. I got the master kit, which included the fuel pump, lines, and all the wiring to do the complete job. The only thing I had to get was about 10-12" more of the fuel line for the return. I am on one of the Sniper groups, but get so tired of reading the same whining posts, that I don't really bother looking at them anymore
did you buy from Eric? Or are you using the software in default mode? sorry if you have added that info before. Are you on any of the facebook sniper groups? I think some of those guys would love to see your set up. lots are Holley Techs or mechanics or even sniper tuners and I learn all kinds of little tricks from them |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Chadabear wrote: |
After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
| Me wrote: |
| did you buy from Eric? Or are you using the software in default mode? sorry if you have added that info before. Are you on any of the facebook sniper groups? I think some of those guys would love to see your set up. lots are Holley Techs or mechanics or even sniper tuners and I learn all kinds of little tricks from them |
| Chadabear wrote: |
| No, I bought it from a buddy, who is a Holley dealer locally. I got the master kit, which included the fuel pump, lines, and all the wiring to do the complete job. The only thing I had to get was about 10-12" more of the fuel line for the return. I am on one of the Sniper groups, but get so tired of reading the same whining posts, that I don't really bother looking at them anymore |
For sure, tons of whining in the groups. it's been a little better lately with a lot of success stories. Most (like here) can't follow instructions or have poor mechanic habits in general, and FI really shows the lack of workmanship they can get away with carbed cars IMO. Congrats, I hope you post more as encouragement to others wanting to go this route |
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Pooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2003
Posts: 171
Location: LLVW AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Paul.H wrote: |
Nice install and glad it ran well for you. The fundamental issues with that particular set up are the throttles are 3 times larger than you need and also the injectors 2x 100lb/hr ? that's 350hp. If the throttles were progresive and the injectors staged then not so bad but I doubt it. Then there's the fuel delivery above the butterflies made worse by the oversize throttles and inj's.
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Aren't Weber 48 IDA's in the same boat? it seems like a lot of VW carbs are overkill, but they seem to work.
| Paul.H wrote: |
The manifold could be a bathtub style or a two hole design ? Two hole would probably be better. |
- Hard to say, Enginemasters had trouble when they tried to use a non-plenum manifold on a v8.
| Paul.H wrote: |
Electronics ECM housed in the body is not good for long life with heat cycling, condensation, fuel etc.
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eh. everything has tradeoffs. It's for enthusiast use, so very few likely to be in daily service for long periods of time.
| Paul.H wrote: |
No integrated ignition control which would help with idle and cold running etc
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It has full timing control.
| Paul.H wrote: |
I noticed Holley have a whole page of refurbished units which makes me think they get a lot of returns.
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I think there was a run with bad fuel pressure regulators and Holley was good about sending replacements vs. having folks open up the unit.
| Paul.H wrote: |
If you want to know how good your tune is turn off the WB and self learning
you shouldn't notice any difference. Constantly relying on a wideband for major control is not ideal |
Agree on the first part, but running in "closed loop" is very typical on aftermarket and OE systems -- how else do they adjust for variables in environment/altitude/humidity/etc. |
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Quote: |
| Aren't Weber 48 IDA's in the same boat? it seems like a lot of VW carbs are overkill, but they seem to work. |
Yes they have all the same problems but they do work at higher RPMs
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- Hard to say, Enginemasters had trouble when they tried to use a non-plenum manifold on a v8.
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Are those the guys who put IDAs on a V8 compared to a Holley and wondered why they only got 350hp with stock 37mm vents ?
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eh. everything has tradeoffs. It's for enthusiast use, so very few likely to be in daily service for long periods of time.
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Toys R Us
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| It has full timing control. |
Looking at the engine pic it has a distributor with a vac can so not sure how that's working out and it can't do any sort of crank trigger.
| Quote: |
| I think there was a run with bad fuel pressure regulators and Holley was good about sending replacements vs. having folks open up the unit. |
And there's the problem with integrated systems if that's the reason. Problem with an FPR and have to remove the whole system and send it in ?
| Quote: |
| Agree on the first part, but running in "closed loop" is very typical on aftermarket and OE systems -- how else do they adjust for variables in environment/altitude/humidity/etc. |
All variables are catered for Intake temps,engine temps,barometric pressure and even alchol content O2 feedback is very limited and confined |
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iamdonquixote
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2003
Posts: 2041
Location: M*ssholia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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watching to see \additional info on this system.
certainly the manifold heat could be an issue , as well as excessive tweakage to make it work on an aircooled application. |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Chadabear wrote: |
After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
That's a very clean install you did there, thanks for sharing your experience. Will you be driving your car in below freezing temps? |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3446
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Yes, awesome setup. really clean |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| The one I ordered in July got delayed a couple times. They are now telling me they expect to ship it on the 18th of October. I'm looking forward to trying it on my '72 bus. |
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:14 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| xoo00oox wrote: |
| Chadabear wrote: |
After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
That's a very clean install you did there, thanks for sharing your experience. Will you be driving your car in below freezing temps? |
No, I live in Louisiana, Southern most part of the United States. We see mostly low to mid 30's during the winter months, but doubtful I will be driving it then. |
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Yes, awesome setup. really clean |
Thanks! It was super easy and the leaning ability has been quite fun to work with |
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Chadabear
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2018
Posts: 106
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| Chadabear wrote: |
After putting a solid 300+ miles on the Sniper this past week, I will honestly say, it was by far the best investment with the fueling system to date I have done. Extremely quick and consistent cold/hot starts. The engine, literally didn't make 1/2 revolution every time before it fired right up. On the coolest morning, roughly 58*, I noticed the car ran kind of sluggish for a mile or so, until the engine warmed up, but for the most part, ran flawlessly. I have been messing with the idle, and have it hanging up a bit now and then, but figured out that either I disable the IAC, or make the Sniper think it has a full race cam w low vacuum. I haven't done that yet, will this week. But the smoothness of the acceleration, and increase in power...
$$$ well spent imo. I couldn't find one thing to complain over. And I drove it for 4 straight days. I sat in hot traffic, ran on the open interstate, and plenty of standard stop and go traffic. |
Thanks Eric, I promise, you haven't made a move on social media without me lurking in the background like some poor stalker in the night...lol
I have followed you since the first idea I had of putting the Sniper on, and your time, effort and experience has taught me tons. I may reach out to you soon to try for a custom tune, and maybe some advice on the idle issue I am having. It's not bad, but not as nice as I would like it. But overall, is so easy and runs so good...It just pains me when the purists get on and lowball this set-up...
#1, because they have never used it
#2, too stubborn to use it
#3, too lazy to do research and figure out even the BASICS of FI
#4, can't get off the mother's tit of carburetors to move on..lol
Thanks again man. You have been a tremendous inspiration!
| Me wrote: |
| did you buy from Eric? Or are you using the software in default mode? sorry if you have added that info before. Are you on any of the facebook sniper groups? I think some of those guys would love to see your set up. lots are Holley Techs or mechanics or even sniper tuners and I learn all kinds of little tricks from them |
| Chadabear wrote: |
| No, I bought it from a buddy, who is a Holley dealer locally. I got the master kit, which included the fuel pump, lines, and all the wiring to do the complete job. The only thing I had to get was about 10-12" more of the fuel line for the return. I am on one of the Sniper groups, but get so tired of reading the same whining posts, that I don't really bother looking at them anymore |
For sure, tons of whining in the groups. it's been a little better lately with a lot of success stories. Most (like here) can't follow instructions or have poor mechanic habits in general, and FI really shows the lack of workmanship they can get away with carbed cars IMO. Congrats, I hope you post more as encouragement to others wanting to go this route |
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Holley Sniper Conversions. |
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| Quote: |
It just pains me when the purists get on and lowball this set-up...
#1, because they have never used it
#2, too stubborn to use it
#3, too lazy to do research and figure out even the BASICS of FI
#4, can't get off the mother's tit of carburetors to move on..lol |
Who's that aimed at ? |
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