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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Andrew oval wrote: |
| I would recommend fitting a hose clamp where the fuel pipe connects to the carburettor. I can see things going bad very quickly if that pipe pops off while driving! |
Thanks for the heads up I’ve been meaning to go pick up some hose clamps so I’ll take this reminder and go get some today. |
Part of that PM is checking that the hose barb is firmly in the carburetor and isn’t working its way out.
Use a closed band type fuel clamp, not cheap cheese grater crap
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Clara 
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12400
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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This is a 60 bus, right? So I would not expect it to have a mount on the engine compartment roof. The air cleaner you have is from a 1500 bus, that has the roof mount.
I would use a 40hp style air cleaner, like this. You need the triangle bracket that mounts under the coil. Also the support finger.
my 61:
This might be a 1500 air cleaner, with a 40hp metal tube:
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Clara wrote: |
This is a 60 bus, right? So I would not expect it to have a mount on the engine compartment roof. The air cleaner you have is from a 1500 bus, that has the roof mount.
I would use a 40hp style air cleaner, like this. You need the triangle bracket that mounts under the coil. Also the support finger.
my 61:
This might be a 1500 air cleaner, with a 40hp metal tube:
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Yes this bus is a 1961 bus made in June 1960 so you are correct in stating that my engine bay does not have a mount on the roof for said oil bath. However, the engine in it currently is a 1500 not the original 40 horse that came with it that’s why I was going with a bigger style air cleaner because I figured it was better to run the air cleaner that came with the specific engine stock rather than what originally came in the bus. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Hey, bus wouldn’t start after a trip for breakfast yesterday and after identifying lack of spark I deduced my coil has sadly given out. I was able to use a spare to confirm this suspicion since after swapping the two the bus fired up again. I just want to know what coil you guys recommend I run since I’m needing to purchase a new one. It’s a 12v system with an alternator and I’m running a 009 distributor with electronic ignition if that helps. |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Hey, bus wouldn’t start after a trip for breakfast yesterday and after identifying lack of spark I deduced my coil has sadly given out. I was able to use a spare to confirm this suspicion since after swapping the two the bus fired up again. I just want to know what coil you guys recommend I run since I’m needing to purchase a new one. It’s a 12v system with an alternator and I’m running a 009 distributor with electronic ignition if that helps. |
I’d still test the old coil. Make sure it’s bad. Some times “bad coils” turn out to be bad “wires in the vicinity of the coil”. Changing coils moves the wires around and seemingly fixes the “bad coil” , then the real problem rears it’s ugly head again. Just a thought. I’ve had a “bad coil” , when placed on my other air cooled vw that I borrowed a “good coil” from, fire right up and be fine. Only takes 5 minutes to go the extra step before throwing a coil away. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Hey, bus wouldn’t start after a trip for breakfast yesterday and after identifying lack of spark I deduced my coil has sadly given out. I was able to use a spare to confirm this suspicion since after swapping the two the bus fired up again. I just want to know what coil you guys recommend I run since I’m needing to purchase a new one. It’s a 12v system with an alternator and I’m running a 009 distributor with electronic ignition if that helps. |
I’d still test the old coil. Make sure it’s bad. Some times “bad coils” turn out to be bad “wires in the vicinity of the coil”. Changing coils moves the wires around and seemingly fixes the “bad coil” , then the real problem rears it’s ugly head again. Just a thought. I’ve had a “bad coil” , when placed on my other air cooled vw that I borrowed a “good coil” from, fire right up and be fine. Only takes 5 minutes to go the extra step before throwing a coil away. |
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll clean up the connections on my old coil and swap them back again and see if she will fire up. I hope the wires just needed to be cleaned and moved around. Thank you |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Hey, bus wouldn’t start after a trip for breakfast yesterday and after identifying lack of spark I deduced my coil has sadly given out. I was able to use a spare to confirm this suspicion since after swapping the two the bus fired up again. I just want to know what coil you guys recommend I run since I’m needing to purchase a new one. It’s a 12v system with an alternator and I’m running a 009 distributor with electronic ignition if that helps. |
I’d still test the old coil. Make sure it’s bad. Some times “bad coils” turn out to be bad “wires in the vicinity of the coil”. Changing coils moves the wires around and seemingly fixes the “bad coil” , then the real problem rears it’s ugly head again. Just a thought. I’ve had a “bad coil” , when placed on my other air cooled vw that I borrowed a “good coil” from, fire right up and be fine. Only takes 5 minutes to go the extra step before throwing a coil away. |
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll clean up the connections on my old coil and swap them back again and see if she will fire up. I hope the wires just needed to be cleaned and moved around. Thank you |
It can be a shorted, cracked or thin wire pretty far from the coil that can make it seem like a bad coil. My last bout with “false bad coil-itis”, it was on a 67 GMC van, but same concept, it turned out to be a wire from the coil grounding out intermittently to the body of the inside of the distributor next to the condenser. It might run fine for weeks or months until the vacuum advance, speed, bump, temperature and moon phase would align perfectly and ground everything out. Switching out the “bad coil” would unwittingly jiggle the undiscovered wire just so, then it wasn’t grounding out, giving the impression that the new coil had fixed the problem. I have like 3 spare good coils for that van now. I know yours has electronic ignition, but just to give an idea.
I try to put the blue Bosch coils on stuff. I’ve had a few long time VW shop owners claim they’ve hardly ever seen one actually go bad. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Took off the coils connectors and cleaned them off put the coil back on and it fired up again so you were right and I was wrong the coil just needed a refresher. The coil in the bus right now sloshes like a battery while the spare does not I’m guessing they are two different style coils and am not worried about that unless someone else knows more and tells me otherwise. However, now while driving the acceleration feels a considerable amount weaker than it did before and I believe I heard air either sucking or blowing while getting up to speed. Any help will be greatly appreciated so I can try and diagnose the issue after work tomorrow. Thanks |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Took off the coils connectors and cleaned them off put the coil back on and it fired up again so you were right and I was wrong the coil just needed a refresher. The coil in the bus right now sloshes like a battery while the spare does not I’m guessing they are two different style coils and am not worried about that unless someone else knows more and tells me otherwise. However, now while driving the acceleration feels a considerable amount weaker than it did before and I believe I heard air either sucking or blowing while getting up to speed. Any help will be greatly appreciated so I can try and diagnose the issue after work tomorrow. Thanks |
Air sucking or blowing would probably be a vacuum leak or exhaust leak/restriction of some sort. Either could reduce your engine’s power.
Back to the intermittent lack of spark you’ve been having. One little trick you can try is to wait til night time, find a very dark place to park, and with all your lights off, just watch the motor run. Look for little flashes. Then, without getting caught in the belt or pulleys, move your wiring around here and there and keep watching for little flashes. I had a case of intermittent bucking and backfiring on my Westy , about once a month it would shut completely off on me but restart after a minute or two. By accident one night I saw the little flashes coming from behind the carb and alternator after it had had a backfiring episode and I’d pulled over on a super dark back road to check it out. It was where the wires snake back behind the carb and alternator over to the coil. One was chafed and arcing a little pretty much all the time, enough to produce the tiny little flashes visible only in complete darkness, without killing the motor. Then sometimes when upshifting or downshifting, the chafed wire would apparently move around, make more contact and cause a buck and backfire, which jarred it back loose and the motor would smooth out. It mimicked a carburetor or ignition problem…. anyhoo, after seeing the little flashes I pulled those wires out, found the chafed/burnt wire, taped it up and no more of that crap. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Took off the coils connectors and cleaned them off put the coil back on and it fired up again so you were right and I was wrong the coil just needed a refresher. The coil in the bus right now sloshes like a battery while the spare does not I’m guessing they are two different style coils and am not worried about that unless someone else knows more and tells me otherwise. However, now while driving the acceleration feels a considerable amount weaker than it did before and I believe I heard air either sucking or blowing while getting up to speed. Any help will be greatly appreciated so I can try and diagnose the issue after work tomorrow. Thanks |
Air sucking or blowing would probably be a vacuum leak or exhaust leak/restriction of some sort. Either could reduce your engine’s power.
Back to the intermittent lack of spark you’ve been having. One little trick you can try is to wait til night time, find a very dark place to park, and with all your lights off, just watch the motor run. Look for little flashes. Then, without getting caught in the belt or pulleys, move your wiring around here and there and keep watching for little flashes. I had a case of intermittent bucking and backfiring on my Westy , about once a month it would shut completely off on me but restart after a minute or two. By accident one night I saw the little flashes coming from behind the carb and alternator after it had had a backfiring episode and I’d pulled over on a super dark back road to check it out. It was where the wires snake back behind the carb and alternator over to the coil. One was chafed and arcing a little pretty much all the time, enough to produce the tiny little flashes visible only in complete darkness, without killing the motor. Then sometimes when upshifting or downshifting, the chafed wire would apparently move around, make more contact and cause a buck and backfire, which jarred it back loose and the motor would smooth out. It mimicked a carburetor or ignition problem…. anyhoo, after seeing the little flashes I pulled those wires out, found the chafed/burnt wire, taped it up and no more of that crap. |
Bus wouldn’t start again when I went to start it tonight to check for arcing as you suggested, go figures. I began my hunt for bad grounds when I accidentally snapped my alternators ceramic washer so now I can’t re connect my battery unless I want to solder my wire to my positive connection on my battery. The hunt for the issue is now on pause until I pick up a new ceramic washer. Which hopefully is not going to be as difficult as it seems to be while looking online for one. Thanks for the help will update when it’s hopefully fixed and back on the road. |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Took off the coils connectors and cleaned them off put the coil back on and it fired up again so you were right and I was wrong the coil just needed a refresher. The coil in the bus right now sloshes like a battery while the spare does not I’m guessing they are two different style coils and am not worried about that unless someone else knows more and tells me otherwise. However, now while driving the acceleration feels a considerable amount weaker than it did before and I believe I heard air either sucking or blowing while getting up to speed. Any help will be greatly appreciated so I can try and diagnose the issue after work tomorrow. Thanks |
Air sucking or blowing would probably be a vacuum leak or exhaust leak/restriction of some sort. Either could reduce your engine’s power.
Back to the intermittent lack of spark you’ve been having. One little trick you can try is to wait til night time, find a very dark place to park, and with all your lights off, just watch the motor run. Look for little flashes. Then, without getting caught in the belt or pulleys, move your wiring around here and there and keep watching for little flashes. I had a case of intermittent bucking and backfiring on my Westy , about once a month it would shut completely off on me but restart after a minute or two. By accident one night I saw the little flashes coming from behind the carb and alternator after it had had a backfiring episode and I’d pulled over on a super dark back road to check it out. It was where the wires snake back behind the carb and alternator over to the coil. One was chafed and arcing a little pretty much all the time, enough to produce the tiny little flashes visible only in complete darkness, without killing the motor. Then sometimes when upshifting or downshifting, the chafed wire would apparently move around, make more contact and cause a buck and backfire, which jarred it back loose and the motor would smooth out. It mimicked a carburetor or ignition problem…. anyhoo, after seeing the little flashes I pulled those wires out, found the chafed/burnt wire, taped it up and no more of that crap. |
Bus wouldn’t start again when I went to start it tonight to check for arcing as you suggested, go figures. I began my hunt for bad grounds when I accidentally snapped my alternators ceramic washer so now I can’t re connect my battery unless I want to solder my wire to my positive connection on my battery. The hunt for the issue is now on pause until I pick up a new ceramic washer. Which hopefully is not going to be as difficult as it seems to be while looking online for one. Thanks for the help will update when it’s hopefully fixed and back on the road. |
Bummer about the ceramic washer. I don’t know if you have another air cooled vw, or a friend with one nearby, but when it behaves as you stated it did tonight, perfect time to move that coil onto a different vw real quick and see what it does. If it fires right up when moved to another car, you’ve definitely got a wiring/grounding out issue. If it won’t hit a lick when installed onto a different vehicle, it’s some sort of intermittent coil failure. I used to think coils were either good or bad, worked or didn’t , but I’ve read accounts on here of them being weak, or intermittent, without failing completely. Autozone and Oreilly will test coils for you, too, but I’m not sure how much faith to put into those tests. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| Took off the coils connectors and cleaned them off put the coil back on and it fired up again so you were right and I was wrong the coil just needed a refresher. The coil in the bus right now sloshes like a battery while the spare does not I’m guessing they are two different style coils and am not worried about that unless someone else knows more and tells me otherwise. However, now while driving the acceleration feels a considerable amount weaker than it did before and I believe I heard air either sucking or blowing while getting up to speed. Any help will be greatly appreciated so I can try and diagnose the issue after work tomorrow. Thanks |
Air sucking or blowing would probably be a vacuum leak or exhaust leak/restriction of some sort. Either could reduce your engine’s power.
Back to the intermittent lack of spark you’ve been having. One little trick you can try is to wait til night time, find a very dark place to park, and with all your lights off, just watch the motor run. Look for little flashes. Then, without getting caught in the belt or pulleys, move your wiring around here and there and keep watching for little flashes. I had a case of intermittent bucking and backfiring on my Westy , about once a month it would shut completely off on me but restart after a minute or two. By accident one night I saw the little flashes coming from behind the carb and alternator after it had had a backfiring episode and I’d pulled over on a super dark back road to check it out. It was where the wires snake back behind the carb and alternator over to the coil. One was chafed and arcing a little pretty much all the time, enough to produce the tiny little flashes visible only in complete darkness, without killing the motor. Then sometimes when upshifting or downshifting, the chafed wire would apparently move around, make more contact and cause a buck and backfire, which jarred it back loose and the motor would smooth out. It mimicked a carburetor or ignition problem…. anyhoo, after seeing the little flashes I pulled those wires out, found the chafed/burnt wire, taped it up and no more of that crap. |
Bus wouldn’t start again when I went to start it tonight to check for arcing as you suggested, go figures. I began my hunt for bad grounds when I accidentally snapped my alternators ceramic washer so now I can’t re connect my battery unless I want to solder my wire to my positive connection on my battery. The hunt for the issue is now on pause until I pick up a new ceramic washer. Which hopefully is not going to be as difficult as it seems to be while looking online for one. Thanks for the help will update when it’s hopefully fixed and back on the road. |
Bummer about the ceramic washer. I don’t know if you have another air cooled vw, or a friend with one nearby, but when it behaves as you stated it did tonight, perfect time to move that coil onto a different vw real quick and see what it does. If it fires right up when moved to another car, you’ve definitely got a wiring/grounding out issue. If it won’t hit a lick when installed onto a different vehicle, it’s some sort of intermittent coil failure. I used to think coils were either good or bad, worked or didn’t , but I’ve read accounts on here of them being weak, or intermittent, without failing completely. Autozone and Oreilly will test coils for you, too, but I’m not sure how much faith to put into those tests. |
I’ll probably bug my buddy to let me come over and put it in his beetle to see if it’s the coil or not. I doubt the coils are bad since both have started the bus in the past two days and now tonight they both won’t start it but it’s better to be safe than sorry. And yes the ceramic washer breaking is just a pain since it is turning into a much harder thing to find than I first anticipated. It does not seem like a common part that most VWs have so I’ll just have to find it hopefully at a local store tomorrow. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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Hey,
I’m having intermittent starting issues and I’m wondering if anyone has any ideas why. Whenever I need to drive the bus and it’s parked in my garage it always starts up and gives me no issues driving. However, when I try to start it after sitting in the sun all day while I’m at work it’s a hit or miss on starting. This leads me to believe whatever the issue is has to deal with the outside temperature but I’m not sure why. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
Hey,
I’m having intermittent starting issues and I’m wondering if anyone has any ideas why. Whenever I need to drive the bus and it’s parked in my garage it always starts up and gives me no issues driving. However, when I try to start it after sitting in the sun all day while I’m at work it’s a hit or miss on starting. This leads me to believe whatever the issue is has to deal with the outside temperature but I’m not sure why. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks |
I’d buy an inline spark tester at Autozone or oreilly and install it , to 100% know if you’re getting spark to the plugs. If not, then work your way back from the plug wires, to the distributor cap, to the coil wire, to coil, and eventually to the ignition switch.
I suspect you have a loose or chafed wire *somewhere* along the line. It could even be at the fuse box or very near there. Try rotating the two red fuses in their holders next time it does this. One of my buses would intermittently die or buck/skip when hitting bumps and it turned out to be the fuse box was loose and let it ground out to the fuse box holder. It happened to do it at night one time and I saw the little flash from down there…duh. A little tie wrap to tighten the fuse box to the holder fixed it right up. Also look at the wires where they come into the engine compartment and go behind the generator and carb over to the coil. Common place for them to be cracked, chafed, poorly repaired and wrapped in tape, spliced, etc, hidden behind there. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14269
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| Is your gas cap venting? A stuck or non venting cap will force fuel into your engine and flood it when the gas tank gets hot. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| Is your gas cap venting? A stuck or non venting cap will force fuel into your engine and flood it when the gas tank gets hot. |
You know I’m not positive on that one. Would the cause of it not venting properly be due to a bad seal? The way it usually starts up after I can’t get it to start in the sun is by testing my coil wire for spark on the body of my distributor and then a good amount of time it’ll start after replugging the wire. |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| Is your gas cap venting? A stuck or non venting cap will force fuel into your engine and flood it when the gas tank gets hot. |
You know I’m not positive on that one. Would the cause of it not venting properly be due to a bad seal? The way it usually starts up after I can’t get it to start in the sun is by testing my coil wire for spark on the body of my distributor and then a good amount of time it’ll start after replugging the wire. |
When you test it for spark, is it a blue or white spark ? Or just orange? Or no spark at all? An inline spark tester is only like $7.00 You can even just leave it plugged in and drive it. |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| Is your gas cap venting? A stuck or non venting cap will force fuel into your engine and flood it when the gas tank gets hot. |
You know I’m not positive on that one. Would the cause of it not venting properly be due to a bad seal? The way it usually starts up after I can’t get it to start in the sun is by testing my coil wire for spark on the body of my distributor and then a good amount of time it’ll start after replugging the wire. |
When you test it for spark, is it a blue or white spark ? Or just orange? Or no spark at all? An inline spark tester is only like $7.00 You can even just leave it plugged in and drive it. |
The spark is blue most of the time from my recollection. But looking back on my video from yesterday it’s seems to be more white if that changes anything. I usually just set up my phone to record while I turn it over to see the spark. |
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AS350driver
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016
Posts: 1340
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| AS350driver wrote: |
| VanillaGorilla11 wrote: |
| BarryL wrote: |
| Is your gas cap venting? A stuck or non venting cap will force fuel into your engine and flood it when the gas tank gets hot. |
You know I’m not positive on that one. Would the cause of it not venting properly be due to a bad seal? The way it usually starts up after I can’t get it to start in the sun is by testing my coil wire for spark on the body of my distributor and then a good amount of time it’ll start after replugging the wire. |
When you test it for spark, is it a blue or white spark ? Or just orange? Or no spark at all? An inline spark tester is only like $7.00 You can even just leave it plugged in and drive it. |
The spark is blue most of the time from my recollection. But looking back on my video from yesterday it’s seems to be more white if that changes anything. I usually just set up my phone to record while I turn it over to see the spark. |
It should run fine on blue or white spark. But it getting from the coil wire to the distributor body isn’t a guarantee it’s getting to the plugs |
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VanillaGorilla11
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2021
Posts: 73
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Butter Bus Revival |
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Hey,
My front shifter bushing gave out yesterday while driving and I picked up a new one but I could not for the life of me squeeze it into the the guide hole. Is it supposed to be ungodly difficult to put in place or am I doing something wrong? |
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