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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:01 pm Post subject: Grinding on rebuild |
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65 with 1600 recently rebuilt on the cheap. 50 50 chance it would work but looks like it’s going to need to be redone. Any advice opinions are welcome. Wherever this takes me I’d be keen on sharing the journey as I’m new to being a member but not new to the forums.
Here is the story.
Buttoned her up and installed an external oil filter. Little clearance on the belt pulley so had so shave some tin. Other than that started fine and timed. Did notice the gen light saying on and after about half hour of driving loss power but idle was fine. Limped home. Swapped out the alternator 12v but no luck light still on. Then the squealing grinding started. Thought it was the belt pulley hitting the oil pump but not the case. Sounds internal with some smoke coming out the oil breather/ carb.
So something is not right, clearly.
Next step pull engine and start over? |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Pull off the alternator belt. Start the engine just for a few seconds to see if the noise stopped. |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Yes sorry I should have mentioned that I tried running the engine without the pulley and the grinding is definitely internal occurs within 1min of running. Guess is a crank bearing that is not getting oil… maybe slipped off the dowel…turns over by hand just fine.
Dang really not looking forward to pulling the engine again.
Will post a photo but should have held a poll |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Just found out I accidentally flipped the generator and oil pressure lights. Therefore, I had a low oil pressure issue from the start, which would explain the grinding
Anyone out there ever run into low oil pressure from an external oil filter instal? There is oil going to the filter but it does not look like as much as you would expect…. |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12452
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Bearings don’t slip off dowels |
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Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1668 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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You say "installed an external oil filter".
Full flowed case or filter pump setup? |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Surprised no guesses.
Threw a rod because oil pump intake was blocked
Fun getting that off and stoked about taking one step forward and two steps back
Does anyone know where I can pick up a single connecting rod and with bearings? |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Bearings come as boxed sets.
Rods may be available separately, although they too are generally sold in sets. If you did damage to one rod's bearings, You may as well replace ALL of the bearings, main, rod and cam.
What was it that was blocking the oil pump intake?
And you did not answer the question above as to what sort of external oil filter.
Is it a filter-on-pump?
Is it from the top of the case stock oil cooler location?
Is it an out & back in oil pump?
Is it full flowed?
_________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12452
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Plenty of good used rods out there and try to find one close to the weight of the other 3. You might even find some bearings but I think it would be easier to just buy another set. How’s the crankshaft journal look?
Concerning replacing all the bearings I’d give them a real close visual inspection looking for any kind of foreign material embedded. I’d also think about using a different oil cooler. Another wild card? You might want to consider cleaning out the oil passages in the case halves.
Pictures would help us help you. |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Sorry y'all didnt see these other replies.
It is a spin on cheaply aftermarket oil pump and filter.
Pretty sure my culprit was another aftermarket spring piece that was blocking the pickup. When I found it
Point here is to not run and identify the obstruction if your oil pressure light come on.
Learning the hard way here.
So is there consensus about replacing all rods? Others seem fine. Just the one is fried and the journal has some melted on bearing that I'll try to sand off.
If a photo would help I can post once I get to it. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Orangebug65sunroof wrote: |
Sorry y'all didnt see these other replies.
It is a spin on cheaply aftermarket oil pump and filter.
Pretty sure my culprit was another aftermarket spring piece that was blocking the pickup. When I found it
Point here is to not run and identify the obstruction if your oil pressure light come on.
Learning the hard way here.
So is there consensus about replacing all rods? Others seem fine. Just the one is fried and the journal has some melted on bearing that I'll try to sand off.
If a photo would help I can post once I get to it. |
Most here cannot read. But post a pic. And you'll get plenty of advice.
Besides, we love to see carnage pics. Sick fucks, we are! _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Welcome to my second shit show
[/img] |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9826 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Orangebug65sunroof wrote: |
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It made a "grinding" noise ? |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Close up of bearings from position 1. Cranked rod was 4.
I'd say I'm good ,
How close does the rods have to be?
Closest # I can give is 1lbs 4.4 oz |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Bearings cleaned up nicely.
Smooth even!
Must be that 20+ years of grime.
Wifey callen...thanks again everyone get lonely up here. |
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Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1668 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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578.33 grams. give or take... |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Just noticed bearing photo did not post. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Are you SURE that rod is bad? It should buff out, shouldn't it?
Lifter faces look pretty gronked too.
Looks like you're up for a complete rebuild. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Orangebug65sunroof Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2021 Posts: 14 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Grinding on rebuild |
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Update:
Picked up a rod from a local saint.
Bearings for the rods.
Buffed out the old melted bearings.
Feeling super proud putting the crank in the cleaned case and WTF
The crank doesn’t want to rotate…
Come on…the crank bearings adjacent to the gears are seized!
Guess since they are aluminum they shrunk when they heated up?
Oh and the case looks to have been thrust cut to 2mm and that bearing has quite a bit of play….
Worth going forward or cut my losses?
At this point it’s learning and brings back memories of working on small engines. |
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