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skurtas9848 Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2019 Posts: 6 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Is there any one who has upgraded the suspension on a late year 1970's type 2 bus? I am looking for your experience and recommendations. Would like to use Bilstein parts |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12846 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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I did using Bilstein shocks from the rear of a Beetle on the front, and then some (I think) 9500 series for an off-road truck for the rear.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=675623&highlight=crusty+pig
My beast was fairly light due to not having gotten around to installing any of the interior & this made for quite a stiff ride, but there was very little sway even under heavy cross winds, buffeting from large trucks, or dips & expansion joints. They really tamed the bumps & jumps when going off road.
Link
_________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16959 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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I have a lot of experience with this. The best thing you can do is get the right tires. They need to have stiff sidewalls. I like the Hankook RA18.
Next is shocks. Bilsteins are good but Koni’s are the best.
Next is alignment. Get a professional alignment and have them check your ball joints. Next would be steering like drag link, tie rod ends, steering box, center pin. Be sure your front end has been greased. 5 zercs. Next is check the preload on your front wheel bearings. Next, be sure you have a pedal pan. Keeps out the wind and rain and helps with aerodynamics. Next, check your steering damper. This is probably the least important but most commonly replaced part. Next, check the butt sag. Your rear torsion bars may need to be adjusted up. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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the VW bus design is an IRS suspension. Why would you want to spend the money to update it? My stock suspension, completely restored, with Koni shocks an Hankook tires out corners most modern cars when we are on winding roads in the Sierras. Speed bumps are milder in the bus than in any other vehicle we own. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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skurtas9848 Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2019 Posts: 6 Location: Florida
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Thank you to all replies to my post. These are all very helpful and I plan to implement the recommendations.
Have any of you installed a sway bar? |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16959 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Have any of you installed a sway bar?
Yes,
You can purchase a thicker front sway bay or also add a rear sway bay. I don't find that either affects the ride as much as tires and shocks do _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Takamotti Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2020 Posts: 73 Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Not sure what do you mean by "upgrading", going offroad or going faster through corners or do you want to keep driving straight in windy weather?
But anyway, I fully agree with Aeromech but I´d say start with alignment, it makes a huge difference. Besides, if you have too much toe in or toe out it can ruin your new tires so it´s logical to do alignment first.
I have a slightly lowered bus with red Koni shocks and thicker front swaybar. Biggest improvement in handling was tires, I had Michelins with soft sidewalls, now I´m using Continentals. And I had too much toe out at rear, I should have fixed that first. |
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mfemenel Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2014 Posts: 273 Location: Matthews, NC
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Second for the Koni shocks. I'm running those and Hankook Radial RA08 185/ R14C 102/100Q 8PR on my 79 Westy. A couple of people that have driven it have said it's the nicest riding bus they've ever been in. I've been really pleased with the setup, going on 5 years now. The Koni's are pricey for sure but they've been worth it. _________________ '79 Westy FI/AC/Auto
'78 Tin Top FI/Manual
'71 Ghia Coupe Project - FOR SALE! |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6980 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Looking at your photos in the gallery, you have a good looking bus. Looks like you could use a slight raise in the rear, you’d have to adjust the rear torsion bars for that. New bushings would be recommended when reassembling.
Like others have posted, I too ran passenger car tires at first and my bus handled like shit. Then I upgraded to the 195r14c Hankook RA08 (now discontinued), later I used the 195r14c Hankook RA18. Both tires were very good and greatly improved the handling of the bus. Since then I’ve upgraded to the 27x8.5 General Grabber ATx. Personally I think the Generals offer a much better ride then the Hankooks, but both are good tires.
As far as the shocks go, I prefer the KYB Gas-a-Just. Some say that they are too stiff, but I feel they handle the weight of a Westy nicely. Especially a fully loaded westy.
Definitely redo the front end. Seeing your bus looks as good as it does and is a Survivor, I bet the ball joints are in pretty good shape. I’d look into replacing the tie rods, the drag link, get an alignment and make sure your steering box in properly adjusted.
Good luck! _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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I haven't found that buses handle well in the wind no matter what tires, shocks, or wheels etc. you have non them. When you are getting a good blow from the side you are going to get pushed around a lot, plain and simple, as a 1930's suspension design and a light front end don't work all that well alone or together. Get everything in the steering as tight as you can and if the wind is blowing hard drop you speed. |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2736 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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I bought my bus with lowered suspension, did not realise it at the time.
It lost the sway bar a while back, it broke after too many impacts with the road surface on cambered road surfaces, or speed bumps, and now uses coilover shock absorbers on the front end for true independent front suspension.
The stiffer springs make up for losing the sway bar.
I have also rebuilt the steering box, changed the bushing on the adjuster side of my 1974 box using a Dremel, and replaced just about every part of the steering linkage, some more than once.
The camber is set according to spec. The front toe in was done by eye when I changed the steering track rod bars.
It stopped jumping from lane to lane on the motorway in cross winds, and I can now drive it at 65 mph without too much trouble even with cross winds.
It blows around but it does not steer itself suddenly which was the problem when there was wear in the steering linkage, or the front wheel camber was not symmetrical. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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Takamotti Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2020 Posts: 73 Location: Finland
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Not sure if you´re joking or not..? You really shouldn´t remove front sway bar and toe-in can´t be measured by eye. Stock bus can easily cruise at 75 mph all day long and for lowered bus with upgraded tires & shocks 85 is ok. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Takamotti wrote: |
Not sure if you´re joking or not..? You really shouldn´t remove front sway bar and toe-in can´t be measured by eye. Stock bus can easily cruise at 75 mph all day long and for lowered bus with upgraded tires & shocks 85 is ok. |
I certainly agree on the toe in. 1/8" out of spec at the thread makes a big difference in handling and tire wear. |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2736 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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Takamotti wrote: |
Not sure if you´re joking or not..? You really shouldn´t remove front sway bar and toe-in can´t be measured by eye. Stock bus can easily cruise at 75 mph all day long and for lowered bus with upgraded tires & shocks 85 is ok. |
I eyeballed the length of the tie rods before fitting them, matching the positions of the studs in the ball joints, not adjusting after fitting..
And yes I have driven with NO sway bars for maybe 50000 miles on all kinds of roads but the front suspension is probably twice as stiff as stock with the coilovers. I was sick of the flipped sway bar hitting things, I was glad when it broke.
After all, RED9 front suspension has no sway bar.
And the reason for 65 rather than 75 is that its a 1641 T1 not a 2L T4. Cheap Europeans without so many emissions regulations.. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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tjrm63 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007 Posts: 116 Location: Jersey Shore
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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https://youtu.be/YskPpL9t8JU
Stock suspension, Koni shocks, heavy duty front sway bar and 27/8.5/14 Grabbers. _________________ I don’t care how much it’s worth now.
I care how much this bus makes me happy |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2958 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Upgrade suspension on Type 2 Bus |
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SGKent wrote: |
the VW bus design is an IRS suspension. Why would you want to spend the money to update it? My stock suspension, completely restored, with Koni shocks an Hankook tires out corners most modern cars when we are on winding roads in the Sierras. Speed bumps are milder in the bus than in any other vehicle we own. |
In a 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental, with factory-stock suspension (including the original factory-fitted dampers) and Michelin XZX Reinforced radial tyres (30 psi front & 37 psi rear), I out-cornered a Ford Sierra at 50 mph on the M25/M40 interchange bend, back in 1990/91. _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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