New to me Ghia, Weber 34 ICT, no power

[astreib]

Hi,

Found a '69 Ghia in seemingly pretty good shape. Solid body. Haven't had an air-cooled VW since I was a teen in the 1980s.

In 2005 it had a lot of work done. New 1776 "Turnkey" engine with dual 34 ICT setup at that time, plus a bunch of other upgrades.

Then for whatever reason it wasn't driven much the past 10 years or so. I bought it when the seller's dad finally decided to part with it.

Anyway -- I have new fuel it it, it starts up OK, idles OK. I got the idle set to about 950 RPM and carbs balanced. It revs OK under no load. However driving it it seems to have no power, and makes occasional weak backfiring noise and bogs down when I try to accelerate. I can get started in 1st, shift to 2nd, and that's about it.

Timing is 5 BTDC at idle, goes up to ~30 under revs. My tach meter only goes to 2000 but from what I've read that seems about right. It's got a centrifugal advance distributor, no vacuum. No vacuum connections on the carbs either.

I have not torn down the carbs and cleaned them, have not checked valve clearances, or really anything other than balancing the carbs and getting a good idle.

Looking for tips on what to do next.

Thanks, excited to have found this and be back in the air-cooled world.

Allan

[67rustavenger]

If the carbs have been sitting a long time. It won't hurt to pull them and clean them. While they are apart. set the float level to whatever is recommended for ICT's.
I don't remember what the float level is supposed to be.

Is there a fuel pressure regulator in the car? If not. Consider getting one. If ICT's are anything like other weber dual carbs. They like FP around 3.5psi max.

Try bumping your idle timing to somewhere between 7.5 to 10° BTDC. Then try adjusting them again. Hopefully that will improve things. After the carb cleanup.


I guess a belated "Welcome to the samba" is in order here. Wow, 2007 and never posted. I think that has to be a record!
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[astreib]

Thanks -- no pressure regulator, Mechanical fuel pump. I will clean the carbs and try advancing the timing. I want to change the fuel filter too -- it has a glass body filter inline, I need to figure out what kind of insert it takes. It looks clear but who knows the filter itself may be obstructed.

Yeah I must have created an account here back then -- I had a '91 Vanagon around that time. Sadly it was totaled in a wreck about a year after I bought it. Sold it for parts to another Vanagon owner, so hopefully it lives on in some fashion.

Allan

[67rustavenger]

[bilbo939]

[oprn]

Take a serious look at that distributor. Points dirty? Gap too close? Condenser bad? Advance stuck? Which one is it and is it a good match? Lube the rub block, take the rotor off and oil the shaft.
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[astreib]

From the records that came with the car, the distributor installed with the engine is a BA-009 with electronic ignition. But I should probably also pull the spark plugs and see what they look like.

A number of things to check, was trying to get things into a priority order based on the symptoms.

Thanks,

Allan

[Rome]

While you are at the distributor, verify that the ignition wires go to the respective spark plugs in the correct order. Follow the #1 wire out of the distrib. cap by touching it with your fingers or pulling on it gently from the right side of the generator stand so that you can see it move in the section going into the cap, then follow it to the side of the engine where it's connected to the spark plug. If one side of the engine's wires are crosses (such as #2 wire going to #1 cylinder), you will often get such symptoms. Do the same with the left head's wires.

As part of your first-time maintenance on the engine, have you adjusted the valves? Even though your symptoms don't indicate a bad adjustment, you need to be sure the clearances are correct for proper engine operation and is a basis for other tuning processes.

[astreib]

Just pulled the plugs. While I was removing the wire to #2, the wire fell out of the boot. So I'll just pick up a new plug wire set.

The distributor firing order/wiring is correct.

The plugs are NGK DP8EA-9, seems to be a motorcycle plug? Doesn't match what NAPA shows for a '69 Ghia. NAPA shows a 14mm plug these are 12mm and with a longer reach. They look a little sooty and greasy but not too bad really. I'll go ahead and replace them since I don't know how long they've been in there.

Also I found that the rubber caps on the vacuum nipples on the side of the 34 ICT carbs were loose and cracked. So definitely going to replace those.

Will also be checking/setting the valve clearances, easy to turn the engine with the plugs out.

[astreib]

Would appear from the documentation I have (and the logo in the casting) that it has these heads:

https://www.cbperformance.com/044-Cylinder-Heads-s/330.htm

Though mine would be from 2005. According to their web site the clearance should be .006" (.15mm).

Allan

[astreib]

Well there's one problem....

[67rustavenger]

Might as well pull the rocker assembly out and check that pushrod. Roll it on a flat surface and see if it's bent.

While the rocker assembly is out of the engine. Order a solid rocker shaft kit and a rocker shaft shim kit and set it up for a stronger rocker assembly.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[Rome]

CB 044 heads all have larger than stock intake and exhaust valves; usually 40 mm and 35 mm respectively. Your engine has heater boxes (HB). If those HB are stock style with aluminum cooling fins cast around the actual pipes, they will be restrictive to exhaust flow because with the larger 35 mm exhaust valves, the gases are being forced into the pipe that has a smaller diameter. Not good for longer drives.

HB are also available that have no aluminum cooling fins, and have a larger-diameter pipe that is suitable with larger exhaust valves. You can easily determine which type you have by removing the fresh air hose that comes off the fan shroud and leads into the HB entry air hole, shining a light into that hole and looking at the pipe. If there are no aluminum cooling fins, chances are you have the larger ID pipes which will be good.

As to your rocker shaft- on the rocker where the pushrod slipped out, you can see the gap/space between the right edge of the rocker to the rectangular metal retaining block. That gap is approx. "nickel coin" width. Much too large. As 67rustavenger recommended, the rocker shim kit uses thin shims to reduce that gap to a much smaller dimension, such as approx. 0.010". You don't reuse the "wavy" shims that were there from the factory, which you can see on the rightmost side. Shims are fitted with the rocker shaft bolted loosely to the head so that you are custom fitting the shaft to the head. After you get the shaft shims fitted, mark the shaft "L" or "R" with a paint pen so that you maintain those clearances. And verify that each rocker arm moves freely once you bolt the shaft down to the head. Hopefully there are instructions with those shim kits and solid rocker shaft kits.

The builder of your engine seems to have simply installed stock rocker shafts to the CB heads without paying attention to the gaps...

[Dougy Dee]

Sat for 10 years?
No power?
I'd be doing a compression test first.

[astreib]

Pushrod is definitely bent, using the test of rolling it on a pane of glass. The other three on that side are straight.

Rome, with regard to the heater boxes, I have a two page list of new parts that were installed in 2005 with all the engine work. This includes the 1446 CB 044 heads w/40 x 35.5mm valves; and also 95-3012 and 95-3013 left/right heater boxes, which seem to be Dansk replacements based on a web search of those numbers.

With regard to the gap between the rocker arm and the retaining block, that was from the displaced pushrod "wedging" the rocker arm over to the left. With the rocker assembly off the engine, the wavy spring washer there has expanded and closed the gap.

The rocker assemblies look as new as the heads (i.e. no build up of grime) although interestingly rocker assemblies are not listed separately on the parts sheet. I guess they came with the engine as a part of the "turnkey" package but just didn't get itemized by the shop. Based on everything else that was listed, it seems hard to believe they reused the old rockers. They look new so I'm going to reinstall them as is and pay attention to the left/right spacing, once I get a new pushrod. My parts list shows them as 4081 Chromoly rods. The number MPR-1000 is marked on the rod. Can I buy just one?

Thanks for the info.

Allan

[astreib]

New pushrod installed, clearances set, new spark plugs -- and it's running on 4 cylinders now. Verified by checking exhaust pipe temps with infrared thermometer. Also sounds better.

Drives somewhat better, still stumbles when I put my foot down. Now that it's running on 4 cylinders, my carb balancing is off. So I need to go through that again. I'm going to play with the timing a bit also.

And then if it's still not right I guess I need to take the carbs apart and go through them.

[astreib]

Got it running quite a bit better today.

Timing was set at 5 degrees BTDC at idle. Moved that up to 10 degrees and rebalanced the carbs. Idling at 800rpm. Revs up nicely in neutral.

Much more drivable but throttle still feels like it has a flat spot. Not really stumbling or backfiring like it was though.

My old timing light doesn't seem to fire very accurately at higher speeds. Trying to check the timing at 2500-ish RPM it looks like around 30 degrees but it's jumping around so hard to tell.

How far can a safely advance it? I don't mind running premium gas, but I have no temperature monitoring on this engine.

[Alstrup]

The jumping can be several mechanical things too. i suggest that you try your timing gun on another engine to verify that it is not the problem.
Now, mechanical reasons. From the bottom so to speak:
Worn out or damaged brass timing gear.
Excessive slack between pinion drive and distributor.
Poor quality distributor.
Worn point/condenser (if still with points)
Worn out coil. (Rare, but it happens that they behave like that)

As for total timing.- With a 009 you want to set it at 30, maybe 32 degrees at 2800. Idle timing is "less" important as long as you are in the 10-13 degree area at idle.
As for how to set the timing on your engine, we need to know a lot more about what it is. Otherwise we will just give you a default setting, like one size fits all.
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[astreib]

Alstrup, thanks.

For engine info, I have scanned the information I got from the seller. This engine was installed in 2005, and the car did not end up being driven a lot. Everything still looks clean and new. I'd guess it has been driven less than 10K miles.

https://ibb.co/fCCRH5f (Page 1)
https://ibb.co/bmjdYtR (Page 2)

Some handwritten notes on another paper included:

- 9:1 compression
- Scat C25 cam, .381 lift, 285 duration
- Bosch 009 distributor w/Compufire ignition

[astreib]

Looking into the camshaft a bit more. From the handwritten notes, the 381 lift, 285 duration matches the Scat C35. The printed parts list says C20, but the part number 20004 would match the C25.

So, I don't know which particular camshaft is installed, it would be one of C20, C25, or C35, if that affects how the distributor would be timed.