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No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

I am having a no start issue that is going from bad to more bad. At first it was key in, buzzer acc lights, turn key and everything dies. Now it is just nothing. I have charged battery and kept it on maintenance. I have unhooked instrument cluster due to fact that I recently installed aftermarket printed foil replacement circuit board. I have checked grounds to engine and the trans ground. I didn't pull and clean the trans ground or engine block ground bc Bentley. They were solid though. Checked wires to starter, and solenoid. All seem fine I sprayed back of starter w/ contact cleaner. W/ battery disc. So I think this point is key but I don't know much about these : I can get the starter to crank by "hot wiring" the solenoid, but when I tried it at the ignition switch pigtail, I have been swapping out ign. switches also, nada, I got just a slight catch a couple times, then nothing. So it will hot wire at the solenoid, but not the ign. pigtail. Short of replacing the whole ign. wiring run what can I try? Thanks
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Mike Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

I have been in a similar situation.

The problem was the earth to the engine. Everything looked good, but there was some oxidation stopping the connection. So I would remove, clean and put back on all the battery connections. Check the battery for volts and see if the headlights go on. Just checking there is lots of juice in the battery and in the system.

I took my starter motor out and tested off the engine, just to make sure.

Check the big metal fuse on the engine bulk head wall. I think the ignition switch connection goes there. Take it all apart and clean.

I had a spare big starter relay which I swapped.

Please disconnect the battery when you clean stuff.

Check the fuse box for the power to the ignition switch. It is easy to knock a connection off.

Mike
‘82 Westy Diesel
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Sorry, but by earth to the engine you mean basically where the neg cable from battery mounts to the engine block? Thanks
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

I have also had one diesel vanagon that had the same situation and the issue was the battery ground cable to the engine. It looked fine visually. Swapping it completely fixed the issue.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

So I took battery out of my small truck, same cold cranking amps, and the van cranked by hot wiring starter pigtail. Took battery back to lapd and it tested ok. So that is weird. Could have been just the disconnect/ reconnect of batteries. I will disconnect that ground to engine cable tomorrow and clean. I do see some white flakes on the block in that area.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Thanks both of you, I will be looking into that battery to block situation more closely in the morning.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

I replaced the neg. battery cable and cleaned the block surface and bolt. I thought it helped for a second, I got van to crank from the ignition pigtail w a paperclip. Did not think it would start bc of glow plugs now being primed, so I quickly pulled the paperclip. Put ign pigtail back on ign switch and try key. I get buzzer and a couple lights for a second when I go to accessory, then all dies. So it wastn't the battery ground to block as I have seen in so many posts. Durn. It seems that every time I swap between the two batteries I am troubleshooting with I get enough current to crank but not catch. For the first attempt. Then it goes to buzzer and then nothing when I turn the key. So it could be battery wiring on positive side but that all looks solid. A little green though. But the disconnect/ reconnect of battery could be just the sign of a short anywhere that effects the ignition circiut. OR could the starter be failing? I am going to remove and clean the transmission ground strap now. Trans was replaced by PO I would guess about 6 years ago, so I was thinking grounds should be good. Felt solid to me but I am trying everything simple right now.
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RolandD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

time to add a volt meter and monitor voltage while cranking/attempting.

Roland
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

After the battery no longer does anything productive in the van, if you install it in another vehicle does it crank that one easily or is it dead?
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Just found out that yes, the battery will crank another vehicle just fine. So far I have, replace the battery to eng. ground cable, cleaning contact point. Removed transmission ground strap and cleaned, sanded all surface. Cleaned ground terminal on driver's side pilllar in engine bay. Replaced ignition switch and key cylinder. I did find out that I was "hot wiring' the solenoid wrong. When I tried the right way I got nothing. The solenoid is of the Ford variety, I was told by P.O. I have been reading threads where people dis the solenoid as a hack and say it is probably covering up another issue. I think my next move is to replace the solenoid, but what is the best one that i can get please?
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Trying to think of anything recent I did to van. I did install a driver's side grab handle, Instructions for handle did say to be very careful of wiring installed in pillar when drilling holes. The only wiring I can think of would be for the stereo's antennae. Mine was moved to passenger side. There is no crucial wiring in the driver's side front A pillar on an '83 Diesel, correct ? Bentley didn't show any wiring in the pillar at all.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

My one problem is that I have been on this solo. I will have the benefit of another person in a bit and will get a read on the battery whilst cranking. Thanks
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is my solenoid and the relay in the engine compartment fuse box. Wiring looks solid. Already removed and cleaned all solenoid wires.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Oops, I guess that is the glow plug relay.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

That extra solenoid looks like it is for the glow plugs, not the starter. If the battery used when the van will not crank is then used in another vehicle and starts it fine, then you can rule out short circuiting. You're down to the starter circuit. There are basically two circuits for the starter - one for the solenoid and another for the motor. When I say solenoid I am not talking about the one you have pictured but rather the solenoid that is part of the starter. The solenoid circuit is from positive terminal of the starter, to the big positive connection on the starter, to the ignition switch, then back to the small sense connection on the starter solenoid, and then to ground through the starter case, through trans to engine and engine to negative battery post. That activates the other starter circuit which is the high voltage for the motor. That circuit runs battery positive to starter across the closed solenoid to the starter motor to ground back through the engine block. Neither of those circuits run through the ground on the nose of the trans.

I would probably pull the starter out and have it tested at a local auto parts store.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

Thanks, I was thinking that the solenoid would be easier to test swap out before pulling the starter. Do you recommend going right to the starter? Also thanks for info on transmission ground. Cleaning it up didn't hurt I guess.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

This is the stock glow plug relay:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



If this solenoid is connected to the stock glow plug relay, it has nothing at all to do with the starter:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If that is the case, I would go right for swapping out the starter.
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sphet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

You wrote "I can get the starter to crank by "hot wiring" the solenoid, "

Did it only work when you jumped the *glow plug* solenoid you shown here, or the starter solenoid? I'm trying to follow along and want to be clear.
_________________
1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

No I meant jumping the Ford solenoid. The glow plug relay picture could have been avoided. It was a mistake. I don't know if the two are connected. The starter wire going to the back of the engine compartment fuse box is red/black. All the wires on the glow plug relay are solid red it looks like.
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ndorian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: No start on "83 Diesel 1.6 Asking for help Reply with quote

No that Ford type solenoid is connected to the battery and the starter and the engine compartment fuse box.
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