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Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad?
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bw65vw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

I will be in the market for an electric fuel pump and a regulator and saw Cip1 has this combo one on sale:
https://www2.cip1.com/c26-127-205/
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with it? Also I feel it could be good and bad to have them combined. It seems it would be nice to be able to adjust pressure if needed and I guess I could still plumb in a gauge to ensure it is the correct pressure, but seems it would be simpler to have both built into one. Thoughts??
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

bw65vw wrote:
I will be in the market for an electric fuel pump and a regulator and saw Cip1 has this combo one on sale:
https://www2.cip1.com/c26-127-205/
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with it? Also I feel it could be good and bad to have them combined. It seems it would be nice to be able to adjust pressure if needed and I guess I could still plumb in a gauge to ensure it is the correct pressure, but seems it would be simpler to have both built into one. Thoughts??


Just installed this pump. Nice and quiet. Never had a regulator installed on any of my cars. Using electric pumps since the early 90's. Less connections / fittings = less leaks and trouble.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Same thing, way less money.
I have used lots of them, and they always work.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p90091

Brian
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bw65vw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:
Same thing, way less money.
I have used lots of them, and they always work.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p90091

Brian

Thanks for the tip Brain! That is a much better price.
Also wondering if someone may have a cheaper solution to this as a safety mechanism?
https://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Products/Fuel_Pump.html
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Link:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757944

The VW Rabbit fuel pump relay can be had for a little less money than the RE controller, but the reliability of those relays is not great (especially the relays with the integral fuse). If you only use the car to "get ice cream" the Rabbit relay could be OK, but for daily use / road trip reliability, the RE controller is the way to go.

Good luck, Mondshine
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

I see the regulator is set at 3.5psi. Is this one adjustable?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Unregulated (although the Carter pump is said to be "self regulating") my Carter P90091 pump outputs 4.5 PSI (measured in the engine compartment).

The Malpassi "Petrol King" regulator, out of the box, is set at 3.5 PSI.
The Malpassi regulator is adjustable, and mine is now set at 2.5 PSI.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

I just bought that pump from Summit as well. I just got it today and have ordered the revolution relay which is crazy expensive but I wanted the most reliable and safe. I'll hook my pump up to a Holley regulator in my engine compartment with a gauge.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Thanks mondshine for the link to your setup. I like the "bypass" idea also. That is what I am wondering am I better off just buying the Carter with the built in regulator vs buying a pump and regulator? I wonder if it is accurate or not and if not it seems there would be no way to adjust it.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

I run a Carter P60504 pump and a Malpassi regulator for insurance.

In the last three year. The pump regulator combo has not failed me. But the relay did. When I was using a jump box to start the car with a dead battery.

Modshines setup is a good one.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Just to clarify...
I wouldn't say the Carter pump has a "built in regulator".

Rather, I believe that it is the design of the pump that limits its maximum output pressure (mine was about 4.5 PSI).

My (Malpassi) regulator, in the engine compartment, is adjusted to deliver fuel to the carburetor at 2.5 PSI.

Good luck, Mondshine
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bw65vw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

The one I linked to in my OP says it has a built in regulator set to 3.5 psi so shouldn't need regulator unless it isn't 3.5 psi...
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

bw65-
I checked the link in your original post.

I think the marketing term "built in regulator" is a little bit of a stretch.
But... No matter.

I believe the only difference between that pump and the P90091 is the size of the inlet barb on the pump; 5/16" barb on the CIP1 pump ( I think it's a P60430), vs. 3/8" inlet barb on the P90091.

Anyway, once you get it installed, check your fuel pressure at the carburetor inlet. If it is too high for your liking, you an always install a regulator.

Good luck, Mondshine
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

mondshine wrote:
bw65-
I checked the link in your original post.

I think the marketing term "built in regulator" is a little bit of a stretch.
But... No matter.

I believe the only difference between that pump and the P90091 is the size of the inlet barb on the pump; 5/16" barb on the CIP1 pump ( I think it's a P60430), vs. 3/8" inlet barb on the P90091.

Anyway, once you get it installed, check your fuel pressure at the carburetor inlet. If it is too high for your liking, you an always install a regulator.

Good luck, Mondshine


"Internally regulated" would be a better term for "built in regulator"

Both the P60430 and the P90091 have the same 5/16 inlet/outlet size... And pressure in both pumps supposedly being equal ... Only real difference in the two pumps is the gallons per hour rating...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:


Both the P60430 and the P90091 have the same 5/16 inlet/outlet size... And pressure in both pumps supposedly being equal ... Only real difference in the two pumps is the gallons per hour rating...


Wrong.
The P90091 has a 3/8" inlet barb and a 5/16" outlet barb.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

Per Carter Engineering tech support chat the P90091 is 5 lb output and the P60430 is 3 lb.

I would still use a regulator to be sure.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

I took a Carter apart, or rather I was given one in pieces. There is a spring loaded ball valve forming a pressure regulator. It opens at 3.5psi or whatever and dumps the flow from the pump back to the input.

It is better in some ways than the Malpassi demand valve style regulators because it does not need a pressure drop to open the regulator.
Also any leak in the regulating system across the regulator does not cause the pressure to go high at low flow, unlike the Malpassi style.

If you are using a Malpassi, you need the input pressure high enough at high flow to ensure that the pressure at the output does not drop.

With the Carter style you do need to decide what pressure you want when you purchase the pump, but the output pressure should be flat up to the max flow of the pump.

Best of all would be a low pressure version of the FI fuel feed, where the pressure control valve at the far end of the fuel line from the pump dumps back to the tank, so cool fuel can keep circulating all the time the pump is running, helping to avoid vapour lock.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

The carter rotary 3psi and 5 psi pumps WORK very well, as far as, providing a consistent pressure and enough flow for at least 120hp. I would not use a regulator downstream, that would reduce the fuel flow too low for half the vehicles I use them on. They are NOT great at being stored for 9 months or years and then expecting them to work again.

Weber carburetors are designed for, and work fine with 3-4 psi USUALLY. Some people report needing to limit the pressure lower and I believe it, but it depends on the application.

Sometimes it depends on how the carburetor is vibrating and that is hard to predict.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

mondshine wrote:
Dale M. wrote:


Both the P60430 and the P90091 have the same 5/16 inlet/outlet size... And pressure in both pumps supposedly being equal ... Only real difference in the two pumps is the gallons per hour rating...


Wrong.
The P90091 has a 3/8" inlet barb and a 5/16" outlet barb.


OOPs... Sorry....

But...

https://carterengineered.com/electric-fuel-pump-p90091

And Carter site and Summit racing does not list pressure, But JEGS does...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p90091

JEGS says its 2.5 PSI

https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Sea...;langId=-1

CIP1 says its 3.5 psi...

https://www2.cip1.com/search-results-page?q=carter

And Amazon says it has a minimum of 1 psi outlet pressure...

https://www.amazon.com/Carter-P90091-Electric-Fuel...amp;sr=8-1

Personally I would prefer the Carter P60430... Performed on Auto-x car with 2180 really well....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p60430
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? Reply with quote

modok wrote:
The carter rotary 3psi and 5 psi pumps WORK very well, as far as, providing a consistent pressure and enough flow for at least 120hp. I would not use a regulator downstream, that would reduce the fuel flow too low for half the vehicles I use them on. They are NOT great at being stored for 9 months or years and then expecting them to work again.

Weber carburetors are designed for, and work fine with 3-4 psi USUALLY. Some people report needing to limit the pressure lower and I believe it, but it depends on the application.

Sometimes it depends on how the carburetor is vibrating and that is hard to predict.


I thought I had seen the Webers need 3-4psi as I will be running dual Weber 44 IDFs on an engine I'm guessing will be around 150hp. So maybe to be safe I should get a slightly higher psi pump and a regulator in case pressure does need to be tweaked?
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