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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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I will be in the market for an electric fuel pump and a regulator and saw Cip1 has this combo one on sale:
https://www2.cip1.com/c26-127-205/
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with it? Also I feel it could be good and bad to have them combined. It seems it would be nice to be able to adjust pressure if needed and I guess I could still plumb in a gauge to ensure it is the correct pressure, but seems it would be simpler to have both built into one. Thoughts?? |
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Tvättbjörn Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004 Posts: 1431 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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bw65vw wrote: |
I will be in the market for an electric fuel pump and a regulator and saw Cip1 has this combo one on sale:
https://www2.cip1.com/c26-127-205/
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with it? Also I feel it could be good and bad to have them combined. It seems it would be nice to be able to adjust pressure if needed and I guess I could still plumb in a gauge to ensure it is the correct pressure, but seems it would be simpler to have both built into one. Thoughts?? |
Just installed this pump. Nice and quiet. Never had a regulator installed on any of my cars. Using electric pumps since the early 90's. Less connections / fittings = less leaks and trouble. |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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Link:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757944
The VW Rabbit fuel pump relay can be had for a little less money than the RE controller, but the reliability of those relays is not great (especially the relays with the integral fuse). If you only use the car to "get ice cream" the Rabbit relay could be OK, but for daily use / road trip reliability, the RE controller is the way to go.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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Shane Tuttle Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2011 Posts: 172 Location: Arlee, Montana
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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I see the regulator is set at 3.5psi. Is this one adjustable? |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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Unregulated (although the Carter pump is said to be "self regulating") my Carter P90091 pump outputs 4.5 PSI (measured in the engine compartment).
The Malpassi "Petrol King" regulator, out of the box, is set at 3.5 PSI.
The Malpassi regulator is adjustable, and mine is now set at 2.5 PSI. |
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55rag Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2004 Posts: 252
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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I just bought that pump from Summit as well. I just got it today and have ordered the revolution relay which is crazy expensive but I wanted the most reliable and safe. I'll hook my pump up to a Holley regulator in my engine compartment with a gauge. _________________ 55 ragtop bug
67 Ghia vert
85 911
18 GTI
Some beat up British bikes |
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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Thanks mondshine for the link to your setup. I like the "bypass" idea also. That is what I am wondering am I better off just buying the Carter with the built in regulator vs buying a pump and regulator? I wonder if it is accurate or not and if not it seems there would be no way to adjust it. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9665 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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I run a Carter P60504 pump and a Malpassi regulator for insurance.
In the last three year. The pump regulator combo has not failed me. But the relay did. When I was using a jump box to start the car with a dead battery.
Modshines setup is a good one. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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Just to clarify...
I wouldn't say the Carter pump has a "built in regulator".
Rather, I believe that it is the design of the pump that limits its maximum output pressure (mine was about 4.5 PSI).
My (Malpassi) regulator, in the engine compartment, is adjusted to deliver fuel to the carburetor at 2.5 PSI.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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The one I linked to in my OP says it has a built in regulator set to 3.5 psi so shouldn't need regulator unless it isn't 3.5 psi... |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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bw65-
I checked the link in your original post.
I think the marketing term "built in regulator" is a little bit of a stretch.
But... No matter.
I believe the only difference between that pump and the P90091 is the size of the inlet barb on the pump; 5/16" barb on the CIP1 pump ( I think it's a P60430), vs. 3/8" inlet barb on the P90091.
Anyway, once you get it installed, check your fuel pressure at the carburetor inlet. If it is too high for your liking, you an always install a regulator.
Good luck, Mondshine |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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mondshine wrote: |
bw65-
I checked the link in your original post.
I think the marketing term "built in regulator" is a little bit of a stretch.
But... No matter.
I believe the only difference between that pump and the P90091 is the size of the inlet barb on the pump; 5/16" barb on the CIP1 pump ( I think it's a P60430), vs. 3/8" inlet barb on the P90091.
Anyway, once you get it installed, check your fuel pressure at the carburetor inlet. If it is too high for your liking, you an always install a regulator.
Good luck, Mondshine |
"Internally regulated" would be a better term for "built in regulator"
Both the P60430 and the P90091 have the same 5/16 inlet/outlet size... And pressure in both pumps supposedly being equal ... Only real difference in the two pumps is the gallons per hour rating... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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mondshine Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006 Posts: 2765 Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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Dale M. wrote: |
Both the P60430 and the P90091 have the same 5/16 inlet/outlet size... And pressure in both pumps supposedly being equal ... Only real difference in the two pumps is the gallons per hour rating... |
Wrong.
The P90091 has a 3/8" inlet barb and a 5/16" outlet barb. |
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Don Jones Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2020 Posts: 198 Location: Makaha, Hawaii
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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Per Carter Engineering tech support chat the P90091 is 5 lb output and the P60430 is 3 lb.
I would still use a regulator to be sure. |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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I took a Carter apart, or rather I was given one in pieces. There is a spring loaded ball valve forming a pressure regulator. It opens at 3.5psi or whatever and dumps the flow from the pump back to the input.
It is better in some ways than the Malpassi demand valve style regulators because it does not need a pressure drop to open the regulator.
Also any leak in the regulating system across the regulator does not cause the pressure to go high at low flow, unlike the Malpassi style.
If you are using a Malpassi, you need the input pressure high enough at high flow to ensure that the pressure at the output does not drop.
With the Carter style you do need to decide what pressure you want when you purchase the pump, but the output pressure should be flat up to the max flow of the pump.
Best of all would be a low pressure version of the FI fuel feed, where the pressure control valve at the far end of the fuel line from the pump dumps back to the tank, so cool fuel can keep circulating all the time the pump is running, helping to avoid vapour lock. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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The carter rotary 3psi and 5 psi pumps WORK very well, as far as, providing a consistent pressure and enough flow for at least 120hp. I would not use a regulator downstream, that would reduce the fuel flow too low for half the vehicles I use them on. They are NOT great at being stored for 9 months or years and then expecting them to work again.
Weber carburetors are designed for, and work fine with 3-4 psi USUALLY. Some people report needing to limit the pressure lower and I believe it, but it depends on the application.
Sometimes it depends on how the carburetor is vibrating and that is hard to predict. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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bw65vw Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2020 Posts: 149 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Carter fuel pump/regulator combined good or bad? |
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modok wrote: |
The carter rotary 3psi and 5 psi pumps WORK very well, as far as, providing a consistent pressure and enough flow for at least 120hp. I would not use a regulator downstream, that would reduce the fuel flow too low for half the vehicles I use them on. They are NOT great at being stored for 9 months or years and then expecting them to work again.
Weber carburetors are designed for, and work fine with 3-4 psi USUALLY. Some people report needing to limit the pressure lower and I believe it, but it depends on the application.
Sometimes it depends on how the carburetor is vibrating and that is hard to predict. |
I thought I had seen the Webers need 3-4psi as I will be running dual Weber 44 IDFs on an engine I'm guessing will be around 150hp. So maybe to be safe I should get a slightly higher psi pump and a regulator in case pressure does need to be tweaked? |
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