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gbrady28
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Bend, OR
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 Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:49 pm Post subject: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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I'm looking to upgrade my springs and shocks from my stock set on my 85 Westy and I'm unsure which to go with. I just put new tires on and they now rub against the back corner of the wheel well when I'm braking downhill while turning. My previous tires were 215/65/16 all season and I upgraded to Toyo Open Country 215/70/16. I've known for a long time I need to upgrade my suspension but didn't have any rubbing until the new tires went on.
I currently have exactly 17 inches from center wheel to edge of wheel well but I think I get a fair amount of compression that lowers it when the van is loaded and two people are in the front because that's when it seems to rub. I'm planning to put Bilstein XHD shocks in front and back but I'm unsure on springs. I'm looking at the Schwenk on Vancafe or the GW no lift. The Schwenk claim to raise the van slightly but I've read others on here that say their van sat lower than 17 inches. Does anyone have experience or recommendations on this? Is it possible that mine are just so worn that the ride height will be the same with new springs but they just won't compress as much to prevent rubbing? I'm good with the current clearance I have and would like to avoid the GW lift springs as many people have suggested they make the van more tippy. That's something I definitely don't want with some of the offroad places I take it. Thanks! |
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7468
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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Suspension preferences are enormously personal and opinions vary widely.
I'm guessing you have a 2WD. It's been said that '85s had the highest ride height and this is consistent in my experience owning an '85 camper and a '90 camper, the '85 rode at least an inch higher, maybe more, than my '90. Do you have any spacers under the rear springs? They often sagged leading folks to put cutting board spacers, about an inch worth or so, under the rear springs. My spacers were 1" - 1 1/4" high.
I put Schwenk 2WD springs on my '90 and had between 15 7/8" and 16 1/2" between the wheel arch and center of the hub. I loved the ride of the Schwenk springs, the best I've experienced, but I run my van at about 5,000 lbs and the ride height was just too low for me. Steve spent quality time on the phone with me and we decided it wasn't a good fit given the weight of my van.
Next I put GW 1 1/2" lift springs on my van along with Fox shocks and I'm satisfied with it. Ride height for me is 17 3/4" - 18" (or was at time of install, I haven't measured since then).
There's a thread here with measurements of different set-ups.
GW 1 1/2" lift springs...
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3098
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
There's a thread here with measurements of different set-ups.
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might you have a link?
...Coudn't see it in the FAQs https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6236054#6236054
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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Vanuber
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020
Posts: 411
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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I have an '85 as well with stock springs and Bilstein XHD shocks from GW. I am happy with the ride, but have some butt sag and the front rides pretty high. I am curious to know if the Schwenk springs alone would even things out. I will be watching to see what you come up with.
_________________
'85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7468
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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Here's one thread...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7468
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| Vanuber wrote: |
| I have an '85 as well with stock springs and Bilstein XHD shocks from GW. I am happy with the ride, but have some butt sag and the front rides pretty high. I am curious to know if the Schwenk springs alone would even things out. I will be watching to see what you come up with. |
I and many others leveled saggy Vanagon rears with cutting board spacers...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=380912
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732253
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3098
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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very nice and helpful. nice to see the different mods people have done and the resulting heights.
Is there anywhere one could find the OEM hub-to-fender (or other reference point) heights for the various years/combinations?
Curious of OEM heights specifically for my 1983.5 and interested in others.
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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Vanuber
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020
Posts: 411
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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Looks simple enough. What is the verdict on alignment after doing this?
Ideally however, I would like to lower the front so it will fit in my garage.
_________________
'85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7468
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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I'm sure that raising the rear 1" or so would change the caster enough to require an alignment (not that I got an alignment when I did this years ago).
Lowering the front is a different ballgame and will require new springs, although you might want to consider oem springs from different years that ran lower than '85s.
Good info on spring heights here:
https://www.vancafe.com/2WDSprings-p/2wdsp.htm
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7468
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| vanis13 wrote: |
Is there anywhere one could find the OEM hub-to-fender (or other reference point) heights for the various years/combinations?
Curious of OEM heights specifically for my 1983.5 and interested in others. |
This is a start, but it sure would be nice to nice to have:
- year
- model
- spring color code
- distance from axle to wheel arch
Some answered and unanswered questions...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=712754&highlight=
Much more in this multi-page thread...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
At some point, you may just want to send Christopher at T3 an e-mail. He may be able to answer your question in his sleep.
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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gbrady28
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
Suspension preferences are enormously personal and opinions vary widely.
I'm guessing you have a 2WD. It's been said that '85s had the highest ride height and this is consistent in my experience owning an '85 camper and a '90 camper, the '85 rode at least an inch higher, maybe more, than my '90. Do you have any spacers under the rear springs? They often sagged leading folks to put cutting board spacers, about an inch worth or so, under the rear springs. My spacers were 1" - 1 1/4" high.
I put Schwenk 2WD springs on my '90 and had between 15 7/8" and 16 1/2" between the wheel arch and center of the hub. I loved the ride of the Schwenk springs, the best I've experienced, but I run my van at about 5,000 lbs and the ride height was just too low for me. Steve spent quality time on the phone with me and we decided it wasn't a good fit given the weight of my van.
Next I put GW 1 1/2" lift springs on my van along with Fox shocks and I'm satisfied with it. Ride height for me is 17 3/4" - 18" (or was at time of install, I haven't measured since then).
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I should have specified that the 17 inches is on the front driver wheel. All 4 of mine are actually all over the place and I intend to put spacers in the rear to level it. They're currently:
Driver front - 17
Passenger front - 17.5
Driver rear - 15.75
Passenger rear - 16.25
Ideally I'd prefer to keep the ride height the same so my main question is am I getting rubbing because my old suspension is so soft? Will new springs and shocks make it firmer thereby decreasing the amount of travel leading to rubbing? It only happened when it was loaded with gear, two people and a dog and I was going downhill or braking hard while turning. During normal accelerating or driving uphill I get no rubbing. Either way it sounds as though the Schwenk are out if your van lowered that much. Given that my van isn't always loaded I'd also rather not ride much higher unless I absolutely need to. I circled the spot that rubs below.
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| If the wheel is not centered in the front wheel well opening you can adjust that with the radius rod. btdt. Redo alignment afterwards though. |
I'm curious if a worn radius rod or bushing could cause the wheel to move back? (I'm not really familiar with this particular part of the suspension)
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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gbrady28
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| Mine are fairly well centered. May just not look it from a slight angle in the picture. |
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6246
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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I have GW zero lift springs on my van and the ride height is 17" on the passenger side and 16.5" on the drivers side. I have a set of MOOG springs I'm going to install to see if I can get a little more height but haven't done it yet. Tires are 215-75-15 with no issues.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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gbrady28
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
| I have GW zero lift springs on my van and the ride height is 17" on the passenger side and 16.5" on the drivers side. I have a set of MOOG springs I'm going to install to see if I can get a little more height but haven't done it yet. Tires are 215-75-15 with no issues. |
Thanks that's helpful. I found an old thread where you're talking about Moog's and finding the right one for the rear. Did you ever find out which ones to use? It sounds like the 5660's work well for the front and I wouldn't mind saving $200 on a full set.
_________________
85 Vanagon Westfalia 1.9L |
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gbrady28
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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After a lot of research and debate and partly due to what is currently available for sale, I've decided to go with Koni shocks with GW lift springs in the rear and Moog up front. It'll be a couple of weeks before I get around to ordering and installing but I'll update with my impressions once it's done. Thanks for all the feedback!
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85 Vanagon Westfalia 1.9L |
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Crankey
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2659
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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Proper ride height... subjective 😃
Just try and steal this guy's cat.
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gbrady28
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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ok back to the drawing board. 
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85 Vanagon Westfalia 1.9L |
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6246
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Schwenk or GW springs for proper ride height |
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| gbrady28 wrote: |
| PDXWesty wrote: |
| I have GW zero lift springs on my van and the ride height is 17" on the passenger side and 16.5" on the drivers side. I have a set of MOOG springs I'm going to install to see if I can get a little more height but haven't done it yet. Tires are 215-75-15 with no issues. |
Thanks that's helpful. I found an old thread where you're talking about Moog's and finding the right one for the rear. Did you ever find out which ones to use? It sounds like the 5660's work well for the front and I wouldn't mind saving $200 on a full set. |
I never could find an aftermarket set of MOOG springs that matched specs for the rear. What helped me out tremendously in the rear were the set of Hijacker air adjustable shocks I added to adjust ride height. Thread here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=352053
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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