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TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT
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jb20thae
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:20 pm    Post subject: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Newer owner here. I'm checking the TPS as part of troubleshooting idle problems. The switch will click coming on/off idle but there's no click at the top end (WOT). There should be, correct? Should I be able to dial in both WOT and idle clicks using the adjustment cam screw?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Yes. If all parts are in good working condition, correctly setting the off idle switch position should correctly set the WOT position. And, since the spec'd off idle adjustment gap range is small at .00x" either way, if that gap is a tiny bit (hair) off, it shouldn't have any real effect on the WOT switch position. But.....

If the off idle adjustment gap is too large, that might make it so the other cam lobe doesn't lift the switch arm at WOT. And....

If operating the throttle via gas pedal to check switch operation, if the throttle cable is too slack, it may not open the throttle far enough to activate the switch at WOT.

Disconnect the throttle cable, operate throttle by hand, listen for WOT "click".

Neil.

Throttle body removed, on the bench, view shows bottom of switch from my old 2.1 Switch assembly is "apart" and rotated about 90º away from adjuster. As you push the gas pedal, one lobe lifts up the switch arm just off idle, the other lifts arm at, near, WOT.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Just to clarify in case anyone needs this info. What year and engine is your Vanagon.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

jlrftype7 wrote:
Just to clarify in case anyone needs this info. What year and engine is your Vanagon.


Please do. I’m going to assume this is the new to you 91 Vanagon in another thread.


Link

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Thanks. It's a 91. So is the piece circled in your photo the lobe that activates the switch and, if so, the distance/range between off idle and WOT is fixed, correct? I was picturing two separate switches in my head.

The gap before the off idle click seems small but perhaps not it's not small enough and therefor the WOT end of the lobe circled in red never comes into range? I'll try and dial it in closer using the adjustment screw and see if it brings the WOT click into range.

I don't have a Bentley anymore (for now), so I have to ask a noob question: what is the second linkage with long spring on top of the throttle linkage??


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

jb20thae wrote:
Thanks. It's a 91. So is the piece circled in your photo the lobe that activates the switch and, if so, the distance/range between off idle and WOT is fixed, correct? I was picturing two separate switches in my head.

The gap before the off idle click seems small but perhaps not it's not small enough and therefor the WOT end of the lobe circled in red never comes into range?
I don't have a Bentley anymore (for now), so I have to ask a noob question: what is the second linkage with long spring on top of the throttle linkage??


Basically, what you surmised is correct.

It's good that someone asked of model year but a comment in your first post indicated to me that you had the later style switch.

The part you circled in my image shows two lobes; one lobe activates the switch "just off idle" the other activates switch at, near, throttle plate WOT position.

That range is not fixed per se. The round metal part shown in my image is an offset lobe. As you adjust the switch (turn that lobe with Allen key) it moves the switch body (switch arm actually) closer or further from the beginning of the "off idle" cam lobe. Since the distance from that lobe to WOT lobe is fixed, adjusting the "off idle" gap also affects when the WOT lobe contacts the switch arm.

As mentioned, that off idle adjustment would have to be pretty far out of adjustment (quite a large gap) in order to keep the WOT lobe from contacting [edit: the switch arm and activating the switch.]

The "off idle" gap spec should be easily found in this forum.

The long spring seems redundant but to my mind, it provides a means of balancing out the strong spring at shaft on throttle body. i.e. if only the latter was used, it might provide a more binary feel at gas pedal. More of an "on, off" feel vs a gradual feel both ways.

Neil.

From my old 2.1 Close up of lobe that adjusts switch body. Allen key is shown. It inserts from above into small Allen bolt head on throttle switch.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Ah, I'm surprised to hear that about the long spring. What is actuating on top of the throttle assembly?

So, no amount of adjusting seems to bring a WOT click. I can move the off idle click a bit, but as soon as I get too close to idle it'll stop clicking. Backing off a hair put me back where I was.. no WOT click. And no amount of cam rotation brings about a WOT click.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

The cams do wear.
You used to be able to purchase new cams, but I’m not sure you still can.

Also use a meter, the click can be deceptive and gives false confidence.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

it's time to pull your TB off, clean the switch entire area, lube the cam-to-housing with anti-seize, clean out the allen wrench hole, and bench adjust it using a meter.

DO have another TB to manifold gasket ready when you do this, the old one will be squished and hard. while you are waiting for the TB gasket to arrive, starting soaking the two large phillips screws with penetrant now and every day until the gasket arrives. they can be rusted tight.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Great, thanks guys. I'll let you know how it goes.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

I'm a little confused. Gapping the set screw IS part of the adjustment process (in addition to using the cam) or it shouldn't be touched? The training vid indicates it should be but then later says it shouldn't be adjusted.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

jb20thae wrote:
I'm a little confused. Gapping the set screw IS part of the adjustment process (in addition to using the cam) or it shouldn't be touched? The training vid indicates it should be but then later says it shouldn't be adjusted.


Check the gap as part of the adjustment.
An intact dab of paint on the screw indicates it is untouched or if broken...... it has been adjusted by someone.

Over eager yet misguided folk will use that screw as an idle adjustment point

And/or

The throttle body shaft wears and things move around.

While you have the throttle body in your hands.......
Do check for shaft wear slop and also for the throttle plate wearing a groove into the intake chamber.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Thanks. Looks like gaskets aren't going to be restocked til Nov at best so I'm gonna have to wait on pulling the tb.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

jb20thae wrote:
Thanks. Looks like gaskets aren't going to be restocked til Nov at best so I'm gonna have to wait on pulling the tb.


I keep a new one on hand but a smear of a non hardening sealant such as Hylomar will seal that hard gasket right up!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

the gasket will likely stick onto the steel manifold side. as Dave says, a sealant is fine to snot up the dry and even cracked gasket if a replacement isn't available. leave it in place if it sticks to one end or the other, and goober up both sides with a THIN layer on the female side and thicker layer on the male side. this puts the insertion deposit on the outside of the manifold vs inside.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

IF you need any TPS parts let me know.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I also have many good used TPS's


Phil[/img]
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

I've been deep in the Samba rabbit hole and have lost track. Phil, are you the one I see mentioned often as a rebuilder? If so, can you message me about rebuild services?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

whip618 wrote:
IF you need any TPS parts let me know.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I also have many good used TPS's


Phil[/img]


Holy TPS parts Batman!

Why do these photos make me green with envy?

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

Huh, ya, if that is the leftovers from doing the RMW/VC rebuilds, I can attest to how well that Phil did. I got the hint about that Phil from Corkins, who said 'if they've got one of Phils left, get it' and 'I've never known a finer machinist'. I absolutely LOVE mine, and according to VC, I got one of the last ones that Phil did about a year ago.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: TPS - clicks at idle but not WOT Reply with quote

On further inspection, if I close the gap circled here by rotating the top of the throttle connected to the spring, when I move the lower throttle arm I get the WOT click. Why is this? At rest should the spring be pulling the "top" arm of the throttle against the "bottom" arm of the throttle so that they both move at the same time?

Also, the T where the red arrow is pointing has what seems like fresh oil all around it (hard to fully see in this picture). Does that indicate there's oil in the intake or is it likely just oil picked up from elsewhere?


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