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OldBusGuy
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Colorado
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 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| Haaaaa. I have a 71 Bus with somewhat the same problem, and now an issue with fuel pump base to resolve. Tried almost everything to get it to start reliably. No luck so far. Owned my bus for 30 years. Never been stumped like this. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| OldBusGuy wrote: |
| Haaaaa. I have a 71 Bus with somewhat the same problem, and now an issue with fuel pump base to resolve. Tried almost everything to get it to start reliably. No luck so far. Owned my bus for 30 years. Never been stumped like this. |
care to start a thread on it and we can get you up and running again.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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IGuessImaBusGuy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020
Posts: 14
Location: CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| OldBusGuy wrote: |
| Haaaaa. I have a 71 Bus with somewhat the same problem, and now an issue with fuel pump base to resolve. Tried almost everything to get it to start reliably. No luck so far. Owned my bus for 30 years. Never been stumped like this. |
I've been sending Gary. "Aeromech". As soon as I sent him a video with audio he replied with... "You need a new engine". I do not doubt he is correct, but I'm an optimist (delusional, insane, OCD). So if you find a solution please let me know.
If you'd like the video/audio pm your email address and I'll send it over.
Aeromech also sent me a contact in SoCal. I'm reaching out on Monday. I will post the gist of the convo |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16961
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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I’m glad to hear this ^^^^^^
So many times guys will just keep asking the same question, not liking the answer, and just keep asking.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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That tight engine that loosened with oil was a bad sign.
A compression test will probably find at least one bad cylinder and point to a rebuild
_________________
.ssS! |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16961
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| Abscate wrote: |
That tight engine that loosened with oil was a bad sign.
A compression test will probably find at least one bad cylinder and point to a rebuild |
I’m thinking more like a spun bearing
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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a tight engine on one cylinder sounds more like a bad valve or damaged cylinder from not enough oil. Regardless, I would not run the engine until it is disassembled and checked over. THIS ASSUMES THAT THE SPARK PLUG ON #4 WAS ALSO OUT WHEN THE TEST WAS MADE. If it wasn't then the difference is compression.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| Quote: |
| HOWEVER, a redhead has summoned me to Miami for the weekend. When a redhead calls, I'm compelled to answer (especially this one). I will give an update next week. |
As long as it is not Jen Psaki. 
Redheads 
"Said Red Molly to James, "That's a fine motorbike
A girl could feel special on any such bike"
Said James to Red Molly, "My hat's off to you
It's a Vincent Black Lightning 1952"
"And I've seen you at the corners and cafes it seems
Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme"
And he pulled her on behind
And down to Knoxville they did ride
Said James to Red Molly, "Here's a ring for your right hand
But I'll tell you in earnest, I'm a dangerous man
I've fought with the law since I was seventeen
I robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine"
"Now I'm twenty one years, I might make twenty two
And I don't mind dying but for the love of you
And if fate should break my stride
Then I'll give you my Vincent to ride"
"Come down, come down, Red Molly", called Sergeant McRae
"For they've taken young James Adie for armed robbery
Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside
Come down, Red Molly to his dying bedside"
When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left
He was running out of road, he was running out of breath
But he smiled to see her cry
Said, 'I'll give you my Vincent to ride'
Said James, "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world
Beats a 52 Vincent and a red headed girl
Now Norton's and Indians and Greeves just won't do
Ah, they don't have a soul like a Vincent 52"
He reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys
Said he don't have any further use for these
I see angels on Ariel's in leather and chrome
Swooping down from heaven to carry me home
And he gave her one last kiss and died
And he gave her his Vincent to ride"
Link
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| HOWEVER, a redhead has summoned me to Miami for the weekend. When a redhead calls, I'm compelled to answer (especially this one). I will give an update next week. |
As long as it is not Jen Psaki. |
In Floriduh?
If the redhead is an orange Cheetoh, I'd pass. 
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
        ---williamM |
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IGuessImaBusGuy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020
Posts: 14
Location: CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:43 am Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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***UPDATE***
I completely dissambled the engine. Even with everythign removed from the block (Pistons, cylinders) i still needed to use a ratchet to turn the crank.
Aeromech nailed it. Spun bearings on both the 1 and 4 rods. There was also a block in the oil channel to the camshaft from poorly applied liquid gasket.
Considering the symptoms and the underlying problems the engine is in really great shape. The pistons, cylinders, valves, case all look good.
I have no doubt that I will need a new engine because the crank is not perfect and there is some minor damage to the 1 and 4 cylinders. However, I'm taking this opportunity to rebulid an engine that I will not have to rely on for long. It's more for practice and enjoyment. The out of pocket costs
I started a second job today, so suddenly I have a windfall of cash since my income doubled. A new engine rebuild kit will be the next purchase. Any suggestions on the best rebuild kit, or whether I should take this opportunity to bore out for a larger set up please chime in.
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IGuessImaBusGuy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020
Posts: 14
Location: CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| KentABQ wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| HOWEVER, a redhead has summoned me to Miami for the weekend. When a redhead calls, I'm compelled to answer (especially this one). I will give an update next week. |
As long as it is not Jen Psaki. |
In Floriduh?
If the redhead is an orange Cheetoh, I'd pass. |
HAHA no a nice natural redhead from California currently living in DC and was in Miami for a weekend. I would pass on one fitting your discription.
IF you'd care to see: https://photos.app.goo.gl/NAuZuGjKH5Z5NVLh9 |
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IGuessImaBusGuy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020
Posts: 14
Location: CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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Greetings all!
I have been rebuilding my engine and have hit some snags here and there. Usually from my own ignorance. I attempted to salvage as much as possible and avoid machining costs. Well, it ended up costing me twice as much.
I finally did what I should have done in the first place and had the case and crankshaft machined. One of my rods was twisted and could not be renewed.
I purchased new connecting rods today. I shopped around and found "Nodular Connecting Rods" at So Cal Imports https://socalautoparts.com/product/connecting-rods-stock-1600cc-new/
The price was right, no core charge and the write-up looked good. When I got home I was inspecting them and they are much beefier than the rods I took off the engine. I weighed them and they are 650gs!!!!! My old ones are the correct weight just under 600g's. To remove 50g's from the new ones I would need to remove about 8% of the material.
Is this right?!? Are these usable? Can I grind that much off these rods? They are significantly Thicker on the cap. But manual does not suggest removing material from there.
THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE VERTICAL PORTION OF THE I BEAM (the "inside" of the I beam.) I don't really know how to describe the location. The dot on the picture is where I measured.
The pictures show a micrometer reading taken at the thinnest portion of the rod arm for both the new and the old. The old is in the area of ~0.15". The new is ~0.24" but I don't know how to remove material from "inside" the I beam. The only thing that has come to mind is a Dremel and about 20 grinding heads 1 head for each 5 grams removed. 
I can remove material from the rod cap and the traditional areas per the manual but 8% of the rod material will not be removed by using a bench grinder in the traditional locations.
Opinions?
BTW, this has been a fantastic experience! I have fallen in love with this project. I have found myself just staring at a piece of beautiful 50 year old German engineering like a piece of art. Even the nuts!!! I had the engine assembled a couple weeks back and I was adjusting the valve springs with parts that I had told myself were "Good enough". As my appreciation of the engineering grew, my faith in my "good enough" judgments evaporated. That's when I got it machined and bought the connecting rods. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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Glad you're enjoying the experience. These can be fun cars, dang it, even when things are all in bits in front of you 
If the rods match each other, who cares what the set weighs? You're driving a stock bus; the tiny carb and exhaust won't allow it to rev high enough for total rod weight to matter. It does make rod balance more important though, VW spec was 5g but even a kitchen scale can do significantly better than that if you have a few hours.
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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IGuessImaBusGuy
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2020
Posts: 14
Location: CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| That is fantastic news. They are balanced. All within about 4 grams. Thank you. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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Ok, so I didn't click the link before my first reply…
I would return those for being "out of spec" and buy a set of balanced and rebuilt rods from Jose at DPR:
http://dprmachine.com/products/vw-connecting-rods/
I guarantee those rods won't be as good as Jose's.
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:01 am Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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| IGuessImaBusGuy wrote: |
| That is fantastic news. They are balanced. All within about 4 grams. Thank you. |
You are getting close. When you get to 0.5g , You get SambaRespect, too
Don’t forget pistons, pins, and circlips, too.
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: '71 turns over, but DOES NOT START |
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When I rebuilt the engine in my 1971 bus, the only place I wanted my rods to come from was DPR. They will balance them for you.
You can't even see or feel the parting line at the cap. They did a fantastic job rebuilding them!
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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