problems installing push button start

[mikeincarp]

Hi,
I apologize for the lengthy post, but please bear with me as you read it. Looking for some info/help on installing a momentary switch push button start for my 78 bus. I believe the ignition switch is toast, and have read a lot of criticism about the after market chinese switches. Also I would really like to avoid messing with the steering column the rats nest of wires and the other switches for fear of messing something up.

I know if you cross the solenoid post with the positive battery stud with the key on,(in neutral, parking bracke on) you can jump start it. A slightly better workaround which I use now and doesn’t require getting under the car is to run a wire from the solenoid post into the engine compartment and with the key turned on, touch the bare wire to the positive post on the battery which will start the car. I twist a wire nut onto the bare part of the wire after it starts.

I have read a little about push button switches, and it seems that if you put a momentary switch between the battery positive connection and the solenoid post, it accomplishes the same thing - once you have the key on and push the button.

Before running any long wires up to the dash, I tested this out with a short wire setup (10 or 12AWG) and the button hanging free out the back of the engine compartment.. I put an in line fuse between the wire from the positive battery post to the push button switch and from the other terminal of the switch a wire to to a piggyback male spade on the the ignition trigger wire post on the solenoid,

I turned on the key (in neutral, parking brake set) and walked to the back of the bus and pushed the button. Voila! Started right up. BUT when I went up front and turned the key off, I got this run on effect until I removed the key and disconnected the wire from the battery.

What am I doing wrong? Should I have pressed the push button again before turning off the key? I just went out to the garage again, disconnected the test setup and left the wire from the test solenoid post to the engine compartment. When I touched it to the positive battery post, it turned over more sluggishly and did not start. When I started all this I had 12.6 V at the battery and checking it again, had 12.2V.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

[busdaddy]

I'll bet the switch you are using isn't a momentary switch, sounds like it stays connected until the next push and the starter stayed running the whole time.
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[aeromech]

Just install an original switch. Even if you have to change it again next year it will be a whole lot better than drilling holes in your dash and running wires.

I was looking through my parts today and found two still in the plastic. The price on them was less than $10. Swapping in a switch is easy once you’ve done it the first time. Cheap too
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[Wildthings]

Bus Depot claims the aftermarket switch they sell is superior to most others.

When OEM switches become available again buy several, especially if the price is still in the $9-10 range. Hard to justify buying an aftermarket POS for $40 when you can get the real McCoy for $9-10.

[Globespotter]

I can't tell you how it was done, but my VW mechanic did it with wires under the dash in about 45 seconds. I use a momentary metal push button on the dash. It works great. I'm sure someone can chime in about which wires to intercept.
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http://vw-mplate.com/mcode.php?lang=EN&id=30990
https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/72067382

[aeromech]

[Globespotter]

[aeromech]

Ah, that’s an emergency situation and you do what you need to do.

I’ve driven VW buses for 30 plus years and never installed a push button hack. My 2015 CR-V has the push auto start like your 2020. Totally different technology. Not even close to comparing to your bus.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[SGKent]

there are two common reasons the ignition switches go bad

(1) the starter solenoid is sticky and it pulls too much electricity which causes the switch to melt

(2) too many switched accessories have been added which pull too much electricity.
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[KentABQ]

[germansupplyscott]

[mikeincarp]

Thank you all for the helpful input

Aero mech,
I read Ratwells procedure for replacing the ignition switch, and this is one of the parts that freaks me out:

"Now the tricky part. There is an access hole in the lower part of the cover. In this picture, I've already removed the cover for clarity and to show the hole:

(pic here)"

"Inside this hole is a factory tamper-proof bolt that clamps the switch housing to the column tube. Since it does not have a head to get a socket on, you have to drill into it with a ¼ inch bit about ¼ inch deep. You can then hammer a screwdriver into it and turn to remove."

He then suggest replacing with an allen head cap screw
Is this fairly easy

[SGKent]

[Oil Phil-M]

One safety feature your ignition switch has that a momentum switch doesn't is that once you attempt to start the engine you have to reset the ignition to the off position killing the engine before you get to try it again. No grinding a starter into an already running engine. At least that's how it works in my '72.

That said I have thought about putting a momentum switch in the engine bay. When I've been been back there trouble shooting or adjusting things I often jump the non-stock Ford relay that is mounted on the gas tank access panel with a piece of wire and with the coil hot wired to the battery. Saves going back and forward in/out of the cab and especially useful when your bus can't hold an idle without constant manipulation of the throttle until carbs and/or timing gets dialed in. Just have to be extra sure you're not in gear!

[SGKent]

[mikeincarp]

Got it sorted. Thanks everybody

[orwell84]

[Wildthings]

[vwwestyman]

One time my coil came loose and rotated, shorting the ignition wire. That damaged the then-working original switch. (Thankfully, no other major damage noted.)

I went through several crappy aftermarket switches and finally installed the BD switch. That has worked great to start the bus since, though I had to "preload" the spring portion that works the door-open buzzer function (that I use to power my radio). I just snipped a piece of plastic from a zip tie and pushed it into the slot to preload it.

But until I had that fixed, I used a push button start. I bought a horn button and clamped it to the steering column. Horn button operated a "hot start" relay to turn the starter. That did work just fine for a long time. As I recall, I think I just spliced the wires for the horn button into the harness going up to the switch.
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1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
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[volkybus]

Well . My 76 Westy came with a push button switch.. Now 12+ years later it still worrks great.. Many cars came stock with these switches. They work Great so I don't get the problem.. Life is too short.. vws have problems with the long wires from front to back so the sololnd doesn't get enough power to make contact with the starter motor to kick in. Hence the relay hooked to either a button switch or the reg switch . All vw's switches have no repeat fitchure since the fifties.Good luck Bill Vt & PR.