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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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You gonna be too low & scraping driveways/speed bumps lowering it further?
I replaced my lower ball joint bolts with high tensile Allen head bolts from a Fastener Store.
Use a floor jack to take the pressure off the suspension before you remove the horizontal bolts.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
It's not necessarily 'flop' - bad choice of word, I suppose. The upper torsions are connected together internally by a bar - lifting one side will lift the other side because they're connected. It shouldn't 'flop' around unless it is not connected/secured properly. You should be able to move it up and down fairly easily though with very little/no tension on it. There's nothing inside that creates tension on the upper torsions unless your inner bushings are worn or the outer bearings are roached/eating the torsion arm. It should be smooth travel up and down.
When you connect the first side - it'll hold the upper torsion in place because, again, they're connected internally. It'll make installing the second side easier because you only have to focus on guiding the 'leg' of the ball joint into the spindle and install the bolt.
The one thing you will get by taking both sides apart at the same time is experience. |
Ok - I think I understand what you are saying. I probably would even more if I had actually taken some time to check things out before having to stop.
Thanks for taking the time to explain it...and for the jack recommendation lol.
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
You gonna be too low & scraping driveways/speed bumps lowering it further?
I replaced my lower ball joint bolts with high tensile Allen head bolts from a Fastener Store.
Use a floor jack to take the pressure off the suspension before you remove the horizontal bolts. |
The car was decently low when I got it. As you may have seen, the previous owner (at some point) took the time to completely remove the bump stops and arm and removed the front tow hook.
I was perfectly happy with the way it sat. But then it went into the shop for new shocks and ball joints.
I did not do that work (although I could have). Instead - my father in law took it in and had them do all of the work, and when it came back the front was sitting a good inch or two higher than before.
I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe the front shocks were blown (I'm pretty sure they were) and they were replaced with OEM equivalent shocks. So maybe with non blown shocks, it was enough to push the car up? Because I know they did not adjust the height otherwise.
So that brings up another question - if that is in fact the case, that the new shocks actually raised the car, should I just set the lower torsion bar back to where it was and buy those shorter beetle shocks? |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Shocks don't raise a car unless they're too long and prevent the suspension from moving through the intended range of motion. They will not last long under the circumstances. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Yeah I was thinking what if they are bottomed out?
I have no idea how many "clicks" this car has been lowered.
Might not hurt to just get shorter shocks anyway and see what happens?
I see that most of the time the opinion is that anything more than 2 clicks requires, or at least benefits from, shorter shocks.
I'm assuming the car is at least 2 clicks down from stock.
Here is the car as I got it...
Now here it is after it came back from getting the shocks replaced...
I'm sure the shop (not a VW shop) just put it whatever OEM equivalent shocks they could find.
The car may have had shorter shocks to begin with...I just don't know.
And that is my problem...too many unknowns that I'm just trying to sort out/troubleshoot. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Take the new shocks off & see how high it sits.
They must have raised it a spline or the new long shocks are bottomed out.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
Take the new shocks off & see how high it sits.
They must have raised it a spline or the new long shocks are bottomed out. |
Yeah that's what I'm getting at. I doubt the shop guys messed with the ride height. They were only replacing parts.
For whatever reason it only just now dawned on me that maybe the shocks had something to do with it.... |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Did they install "gas charged" stock length shocks on the front? That will raise the front some, and make for a harsher ride. These cars like softer oil shocks.
I should add that most places sell rear shocks for the front of these cars as a stock shock. Maybe that's what the shop used.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Did they install "gas charged" stock length shocks on the front? That will raise the front some, and make for a harsher ride. These cars like softer oil shocks.
I should add that most places sell rear shocks for the front of these cars as a stock shock. Maybe that's what the shop used. |
I honestly have no idea.
Full disclosure - this is technically the father-in-laws car.
He's the one spending the money, and I'm the one trying to help guide him and do some of the work.
He got into the suspension before I could really get my hands on it.
But I currently have possession of the car - as it will be living in my garage anyway since I have some free space.
I'm sure they are stock length shocks. There is no way these guys (and by these guys I mean the Midas shop that he took it to) knew to think that much about it.
I'm sure they just looked up parts and went with it without taking some of these factors into consideration.
Now I'm just tempted to put the torsion bar back up one click, install some shorter shocks, and see what happens.
Worst case, nothing changes for whatever reason, and I still lower it one click back down and would probably need the shorter shock anyway. |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Did they install "gas charged" stock length shocks on the front? That will raise the front some, and make for a harsher ride. These cars like softer oil shocks.
I should add that most places sell rear shocks for the front of these cars as a stock shock. Maybe that's what the shop used. |
Real easy to figure out, too, because it'll ride like a covered wagon. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Ok not sure it’s the shocks. I put the lower arm back to where it was and bolted it all back up minus the shock.
Went to the driver side and removed that shock and dropped the car.
Sits exactly at the same height.
Will installing a shorter shock get me lower? Or do I need to go back and lower a clock still?
I measured the shocks fully decompressed they are About 17.5 inches hole to hole and roughly fully compressed they are 11.5 inches hole to hole. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Amazon has the Monroe 5752 for $20 a piece right now.
Any reason I should not get these?
Seems like I may need them anyway... |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| vbrad26 wrote: |
Amazon has the Monroe 5752 for $20 a piece right now.
Any reason I should not get these?
Seems like I may need them anyway... |
If those are lowered link pin bug shocks, they'll work fine once you lower it down a click or 2.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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I ordered them.
These are "barndoor" bus shocks? Or at least that is a normal application for them.
Again, I have no idea how much lower than stock the car is currently.
But I do plan to go down one more click in the front.
Rear is fine. In fact, I may even raise the rear a bit to just get it more level.
I would go 2 clicks in the front, but it that point it just seems like the geometry is going to be way off.
I mean how much can you really slam these things on all stock suspension parts (not including the shocks)?
Another route I could go would be drop spindles I suppose... |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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It looked pretty good before Midas got hold of it! 
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Lol yeah I don't disagree. Which is why I'm trying so hard to get back to where I started.
Just don't know where I started exactly!
Been doing a lot of reading and researching during all of this and I dont think I'm going to do it right now, but down the road I may be looking into doing the drop spindles - those seem a little hard (or just expensive) to come by.
Also would like to do a 5x130 conversion. Doesn't look to be too difficult to convert.
Just different rotors up front and drums hub in the rear? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| vbrad26 wrote: |
I ordered them.
These are "barndoor" bus shocks? Or at least that is a normal application for them.
Again, I have no idea how much lower than stock the car is currently.
But I do plan to go down one more click in the front.
Rear is fine. In fact, I may even raise the rear a bit to just get it more level.
I would go 2 clicks in the front, but it that point it just seems like the geometry is going to be way off.
I mean how much can you really slam these things on all stock suspension parts (not including the shocks)?
Another route I could go would be drop spindles I suppose... |
My 65 Notch has been dropped 2 inner splines for the last 20+ years. I'm still sitting on OE shocks as well. All I did was remove the rubber bump stops from the beam. I've driven it thru many states, as I built the car as a cruiser/road trip car. By inner splines, I mean the end that is inside the beam. The outer end is the end inside the lower trailing arm. There is a difference in the amount of drop between the 2 ends.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
My 65 Notch has been dropped 2 inner splines for the last 20+ years. I'm still sitting on OE shocks as well. All I did was remove the rubber bump stops from the beam. I've driven it thru many states, as I built the car as a cruiser/road trip car. By inner splines, I mean the end that is inside the beam. The outer end is the end inside the lower trailing arm. There is a difference in the amount of drop between the 2 ends. |
Right. I'm talking inner splines here as well.
As you may have seen in one of my pictures, this car has the bump stops removed as well as the arm off of the beam - and the tow hook removed.
So someone already went through the trouble of making sure the car goes low.
I just gotta get it back to where it was, and just trying to figure out the best way in doing so.
The short shocks I ordered will be in tomorrow. But I really don't have any time to work on the car for just about the next week. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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When you finally lower where you want, turn that clip a little more down on the right side end, so it'll hold the lower arm in place. You can see the lip on the trailing arm, that's where you want the tap to cover. Just a heads up. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bryan67
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Fresno, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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Just my opinion.... I`d leave the front end where it is, and raise the back a little.
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If you`re going to do something, do it right. |
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vbrad26
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2021
Posts: 62
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Recognize This '73 Squareback? - Now A "Build" Thread? |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
When you finally lower where you want, turn that clip a little more down on the right side end, so it'll hold the lower arm in place. You can see the lip on the trailing arm, that's where you want the tap to cover. Just a heads up. |
Gotcha! Thanks for the tip. I was just happy to finally have anything there hah.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my opinion.... I`d leave the front end where it is, and raise the back a little. |
But where is the fun in that?! Lol
The last time I had something low and slow in the garage was about 12 years ago now...
Vance's B7 Audi A4 by Devin de Armas, on Flickr |
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