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Dummy Learns Transaxle
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

RTRHED wrote:
I'm in dire need of a type 1 or 3 swingaxle for a core or mainly for a mock-up to lay out my chassis for a formula car. Cant find much usable data on net as of yet. Are you interested in parting with the swing axle ? I don't mind paying the core charges for when i purchase my racing transaxle. (It will still be relatively mild as only going for couple hundred HP ) I just need for measuring + mock up as i am laying out and forming chassis. Thanks.

Here's one for sale in Savannah, Ga. Cheaper than shipping one across the entire USA.
https://savannah.craigslist.org/pts/d/guyton-vw-swing-arm-transmission/7372993622.html
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RTRHED
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

WOW !! Looks like i need to get onto Craigs list. Pretty avid with ebay & amazon. Thank you very much. See if i can move fast enough ? May still be in touch with you.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

RTRHED wrote:
WOW !! Looks like i need to get onto Craigs list. Pretty avid with ebay & amazon. Thank you very much. See if i can move fast enough ? May still be in touch with you.

Just reach out to the seller. That trans has been available for 5 day's now.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
RTRHED wrote:
WOW !! Looks like i need to get onto Craigs list. Pretty avid with ebay & amazon. Thank you very much. See if i can move fast enough ? May still be in touch with you.

Just reach out to the seller. That trans has been available for 5 day's now.


At $450 it's probably not going anywhere.
i wouldn't be in a hurry at that price.

Most i ever paid for a core transaxle was $150.
The wrecking yards charge that much around here.
If some stroke on Craigslist is asking $450 for a transaxle you can't drive,
You'll see it listed for months.
Even if he Swears On His Grandmother's Grave it shifts exactly into every gear and is perfectly quiet... Rolling Eyes
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

ALL Clatter PRO BRO transaxles are cleaned of any and ALL black gear goo in the finest professional-quality race GAS! Cool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

We also use ONLY the BEST soft-bristle cleaning toothbrushes on our components!

PRO BRO components are BLASTED!!
To help you BLAST Past the competition!! Twisted Evil
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Um,
Wait..
If I'm going to blast the main case,
I gotta get these bearings outa here.. Embarassed
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can likely get the one on the bottom off OK, because it's an OD split ring,
But,
Um,
How the hell you supposed to get off that ID split ring??
Anxious Anxious
Anybody know?
You just gotta dig/pick that sucker out with an awl or something?

Help, please, fellas..?
Confused
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Casting Timmy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

The clip inside the hole has two holes for snap ring pliers.

Both of those you can use a simple heat gun from Harbor Freight to warm up the case and make it easier to install or remove the bearings. Some cases have two clips for that mainshaft bearing and others just have one.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm    Post subject: Buried under the Black Goo Reply with quote

Thanks Tim - You were right again. Cool

Buried under the black goo...!
A whole big three-day Labor Day extraveganza!
While everyone else was at the Bug-O i was bathing in the goo! Very Happy
Did have me a grand time pushing things around with my Harbor Fright press.
$100 super coupon pays off!
Bonus points for pushing anything with a pinion shaft from a Harley 45. Cool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Tim gave be this sweet bridge tool.
Makes for short work of stupid dished washers and split clips. Cool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



One thing i did first was to set a stop on my chop-saw,
And cut four 4x4s to the exact same length.
This ended up helping the big press operation stay square and straight.
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They can be used sideways too.
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How to pull this sticky gooey black diff apart?
Bible shows using a slide hammer, but it's this odd fine thread M9?
Couldn't find anything to thread in the end of the diff. Mad
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Started grinding down my puller arm to fit in here when i realized i should read Tim's book!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Finally just used a hammer/chisel like he says - popped it right apart.
Still would like to try the Rick Long method of banging it onto a board..


Getting the bearing off the diff cover had me perplexed.
Wanted to save these bearings for making a pinion depth tool.
But the splitter won't reach under the inner race.
Finally noticed these two 'pusher holes' and put some same-length bolts in 'em.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then you can push the center of the bearing and the bolts push the inner race up a bit.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So then the splitter can reach under and the bearing pushed clear off.
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Big fun learning to solve riddles and pushing things around. Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Playing the Transaxle Lottery Reply with quote

The Transaxle Lottery.. That's what they call it at KCW.
Used or rebuilt, you never really know what you'll get.


The 'mystery' trans, it was the one that the pinion bearing fell easily right out of the case.
It was a double-side-cover early AT-code, so it held promise for some good parts.
But, after pushing the shafts apart and cleaning things up,
Yep,
Pinion bearing is cracked.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Correct me if I'm wrong (Boy, I'd love to be wrong here),
But i think the broken pinion bearing wasted the ring'n pinion.
Pitting on the teeth means it wore thru the heat treat,
And we got a scrap Gleason 3.88 here, huh?
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No big deal; suck it up, buttercup,
We (hopefully) have a couple of 4.12s here to use.
The clean (bead blasted?) one came from the failed rebuild,
And the other from the 'dirt' box.
Any chance these look good to one of the keen-eyed experts here?
Almost inclined to think the dirt box one looks better..?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Maybe should bead-blast that other ring n' pinion?
Saw Rick Long bead blasts sliders.
It's OK to bead blast gears, right?
Didn't want to do that until i knew for 100% that's OK..

Junk parts pile getting bigger.. Including a ring n' pinion. Evil or Very Mad
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Anyways, hours and days spent cleaning parts.
It takes many iterations if you don't have a parts washer.
Dousing the stuff with gunk and brushes multiple passes with a water rinse.
This makes things really stinky, and not all that clean.
So the gas bath works to a point, to where the gas gets oily.
That means a couple of passes with gas,
Then drying in the sun to off-gas ( Laughing ) and not be so stinky.
Since my "shop" is connected to the house,
But mostly because I'm married,
Can't have this stuff stinking the place up.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Finally, the parts that are to be saved get a light coat of WD-40
(because it smells better) and their own little bin.
Here's the failed rebuild:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Here comes the last one apart (dirt box).
This one ended up being the winner.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After a couple pretty good wipe-outs pushing these stacks out and failing to catch all the gears,
Finally figured out to use the "diaper" method here using a towel.
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Keeps shit from getting all over the place.. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:21 pm    Post subject: Carried Away Reply with quote

This morning brought me to disassembly of grimy gear carriers..

Detent plugs got drilled and tapped for M6 so they could be pulled with a slide hammer.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Anyone know why these couldn't be tapped for pipe plugs?
Seems like it would make them easier to remove for cleaning,
Plus less likely to leak.
The depth seems easy enough to duplicate..
Anyone ever do that?
Think


Got out the old bachelor's toaster oven.
212F on the dime.. Cool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Wanted to see/feel how hard/easy it was to push the bearings out of these different gear carriers,
But the one from the dirt box fell out half way while it was still in the oven.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Since the main-shaft bearing from the mystery box took a bit o' pushing,
And even gave a mild Bang! when it came free (at 212F),
That means the mystery box gear carrier is a better choice, right?

But here's the conundrum..
The dirt box has a bit tighter shift rail bores than the mystery box.
So which is more important?
Tight shift rail bores,
or a tight main-shaft bore?
Which would you pick?



Here the stuff got it's final wash.
Everything is removed, and these are just bare castings.
A half-dozen cleaning steps for each at least..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There's a place nearby doing vapor blasting.
We'll see if they're interested.
If it's more n' a hunnert or hunnert-fitty I'm gonna just tank 'em or do 'em in my little cabinet.


A lot of love for a bunch of wasted junk! Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

I'm enjoying watching your work and learning as you go, and I'm learning as well. Laughing
I see a decent size parts washer in your future.....
i have also taken things down to the car wash to use their pressure washer to get the worst of the stuff off.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Be careful when you use that bearing seperator in the press. It's stronger and should be supported with the housing pieces and not taking the load across the bolts.

You'll bend the bolts if the bearing doesn't move with light force....I know I learned that from experience. It's a lot to take in as you learn, you've get more relaxed with it as time goes on.

The 3.88 is toast in my book and from what my cell is showing me. Looks like it has pitting not from rust but the material is failing. It's usually the inner bearing that fails with the big pinion nut bearing. I really wish they would remake the 113 big nut pinion bearing as it had the thrust washer to protect the inner race just like the swing boxes or 4 bolt pinion bearings do.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

It's OK to glass-bead gears?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Hate to say it, but you are doing a ton of stuff wrong, Kinda wish you would have taken up my offer. You would have knowledge and a transmission that works/lasts. 3 hour drive and dirty hands would give you a lifetime of knowledge for next to nothing.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

mcmscott wrote:
Hate to say it, but you are doing a ton of stuff wrong, Kinda wish you would have taken up my offer. You would have knowledge and a transmission that works/lasts. 3 hour drive and dirty hands would give you a lifetime of knowledge for next to nothing.


Ya, I'm flailing for sure..

Wanted to at least do as much grunt work as i could before going and seeing you.
Figured it would be better if had them apart and cleaned up.
Learning a ton every day, even if it's "hard way learning".

So...
You're saying i can load all this stuff up and come visit?
Is this junk even good enough to be worth bringing?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
mcmscott wrote:
Hate to say it, but you are doing a ton of stuff wrong, Kinda wish you would have taken up my offer. You would have knowledge and a transmission that works/lasts. 3 hour drive and dirty hands would give you a lifetime of knowledge for next to nothing.


Ya, I'm flailing for sure..

Wanted to at least do as much grunt work as i could before going and seeing you.
Figured it would be better if had them apart and cleaned up.
Learning a ton every day, even if it's "hard way learning".

So...
You're saying i can load all this stuff up and come visit?
Is this junk even good enough to be worth bringing?





Now that you have every thing mixed up you just have a bunch of parts and no core to work from. Some of those parts could be used in a rebuild,,, if you had a decent core. So, yes, bring me all that junk and a decent core
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

The first part of a good transaxle rebuild is the tear down, screw that up and start with another core. Haste makes waste
Any one can remove nuts and bolts/snaprings ect. These folks usually have pry bars and hammers, and wonder why assembly takes so much longer.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

I kept track of which trans parts went to each trans,
Shims and all..

The best one was the SSC AH code Dirt trans.
It was a 4.12 R/P, and had the good case and pretty much everything else.
It’s laid on the bench here.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The DSC AT code Mystery one had a wasted case and R/P,
But has a good 9-tooth mainshaft and a .93 4th.
It’s all kept track of on the cart here.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


While it might be bold of a first-timer to do so,
I was aspiring to do the 1.32 3rd gear, even tho my two swing axles didn’t give me one.
A friend has a lathe, and i drove one of those for a few years for a living.
Maybe I’ll be able to figger it out.

As for setting up the R/P, I’m keeping the case, diff, side cover, R/P and all from the same trans.
The carrier bearings are going to need replaced, so i might try the turning torque or cover lift-off, plus feel and back-lash to get those right.
Pinion depth should be the same but I’ll run a pattern and look.

A good rebuild always has a new pinion bearing, but this one turned so smooth i almost didn’t disassemble it. Looking at the races super close and all it seems nice.
If the $140 pinion bearing they sell now is good quality i might pop for it but don’t know if i want too much scope creep just yet.
Plus, it might make by R/P setup more difficult?
Is this bearing just a given?

Bruce also talked about popping out the plastic cage and cleaning German mainshaft bearings for close inspection.
At $16 a China mainshaft bearing seems too good to be true.

Also, there’s bushed gear carriers on the site here for $60.
Tempting..

Will get some close pics of gears and sliders and teeth here soon.
Might have to do some more shopping..
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

3+ for sale currently
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2399074
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Stop wasting time guessing and learning on your own. I know you can do it. Load up all that stuff and visit a pro like mcmscott.
The travel time to and from will pay off. Very cool of mcmscott to reach out to you.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Wrestling with all these split rings using my worn-out Craftsman snap-ring pliers gets old.
They have been abused a lot over the years, mostly pulling dirty CV flanges and other unsavory tasks.
I keep grinding the sides down to get a 'fresh' edge,
But as you know, with every slip, they get slightly more rounded off..

I'll go ahead and buy a good set just for trans rings.
Snap-On has these that are just so tasty looking, but back-ordered.
https://shop.snapon.com/product/Snap-Ring-Pliers/Snap-Ring-Pliers/SRP2B

There's used ones, but i could see them being worn and rounded off.

Any of you ace guys have a favorite tool for these split lock rings?
Seems that being a ninja with them could make all of the difference..



Oh,
And,
Is it OK to glass-bead gears?
Or do the tooth faces need to stay shiny smooth to prevent future wear?
Confused
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