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Dummy Learns Transaxle
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bigbore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

I have found in setting the R/P most of the time using the R/P and the housing it came in even when putting a new bearing in the setup is the same that it was. Now if the setup was a little off if you reset it up you will find it becomes noisy because the gears took a set and you changed it so most of the time I leave it as it was oh and I still use white lead for my setup Iam old school.
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

bigbore wrote:
Sorry Iam late I was in a phone booth.
I didnt read though all this thread so forgive me if I repeat something. Being I have been doing these for over 40 years I should be able to add to the fun. I have a almost all NOS type 2 three rib to build and should do a build thread of it most likely the only time to see a nos trany being built. If it hasn't be mentioned for parts Weddle industry's is a great place for parts also germen transaxle.


Thanks for chiming in.
Was hoping a couple more people would be willing to add.
Bruce and Gears have been missed, but luckily their old info is still find-able.

Ssoooo..

What you think of my pattern? Wink

Anyone?
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bigbore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: 110 vs. 120 Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
So, the newfangled angle of the dangle WRT synchro teeth has been discussed a bit,
And is more than a little confusing.
110 vs. 120 degree angle on teeth - the gear hubs, synchros and sliders all have to match to be right.

Or do they? Think

I think i have this straight.. Correct me if not..

From Tim's thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=160



We'll start with 1-2..

Here is a 1st gear 110 synchro - all 1st gears had 110 clear til the end, right?
No little semicircle notch - smooth edge - 110.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Little semicircle notch at the edge - 2nd synchro - 120.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Weddle sells both the "A" 110 synchros and the "B" 120 synchros so life is good and this is easy.
They also sell different wide and narrow-groove 1-2 sliders.
Tim's book also mentions that sometimes a 120 2nd gear synchro can be used on 1st.
The 'Failed Rebuild" box here was like that.
So I'm guessing it's not super important you use the right synchro if you're in a pinch?
Think


Moving on to 3-4..

3-4 gets a little trickier for a couple of reasons.

First of all, there were different sliders for 3-4...
First they were 110 on both sides, then 110 on 3rd and 120 on 4th, then 120 on both 3 and 4.
Then they went to the wide groove, and it was 120 on both sides.
Then they went to the even later wide groove 002 slider that is 120 on both sides as well.
This one works with the later 'tit' cones, needs a 'hash' rail with the line on it, and interchanges with the 091 slider.

-Whew- Rolling Eyes

Problem comes in if you're like me messing with an earlier 3-4 shift assembly..
Weddle only sells 120 synchros for 3-4,
And they don't have any of the earlier sliders.
If you're going to be doing early 3-4 you just buy a whole hub and slider assembly.
https://weddleindustries.com/products/080-311-301-1/080-311-301-1

You'll be able to use the available later 120 synchros, and you'll have to make sure to use 120 cones on both 3-4 if you don't have them already.

Unless it doesn't really matter if they are 110 or 120..
In the real world,
does it make that much difference if all of the parts have the teeth angles match?
Can you get away with say a 110 slider but 120 synchro and 120 cone?

In my failed rebuild box here they sure didn't seem to care.
Wonder if that was a mistake, or if it just doesn't matter.. Think

110s till you get into late bays and vanagons. You can substitute a 120 it will ware to a 110 but DON'T do the opposite it will grind. Also when you go to put oil in dont use synthetic oil with these type of rings you will regret it once you do that finds it grinds in every gear you will be taking it back apart you cant flush it out. for those of you you just have to have synthetic red line makes MT90 that will work with these (yellow) rings. The later type 2s have ring compatible with synthetic oil. Oh and by the way some rings have teeth all the way round so you need to know if its a 110 or a 120
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bigbore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
bigbore wrote:
Sorry Iam late I was in a phone booth.
I didnt read though all this thread so forgive me if I repeat something. Being I have been doing these for over 40 years I should be able to add to the fun. I have a almost all NOS type 2 three rib to build and should do a build thread of it most likely the only time to see a nos trany being built. If it hasn't be mentioned for parts Weddle industry's is a great place for parts also germen transaxle.


Thanks for chiming in.
Was hoping a couple more people would be willing to add.
Bruce and Gears have been missed, but luckily their old info is still find-able.

Ssoooo..

What you think of my pattern? Wink


Anyone?
your pattern doesn't look bad from here you should compare it with the old ware pattern. Also when I setup the rev gear I set it as deep as you can these rev's are weak and can use all the help they can get I also always put new rev (the small gear) in even the slightest ware can make them pop out.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
What you think of my pattern? Wink

Anyone?


It looks great! Both the “drive side” and “coast side” look great! But I am no expert. Only set up 100 or so diffs! GMs mainly. That’s where I learned to use the dye. I took the dye up with me when I went up to Scott’s. He did not use it, he used his ears. But I think I left it with him.

Keep on going!
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GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Mike/Jimbo,
Thanks for your time/attention. Much appreciated.
Since you guys didn't see anything wrong i buttoned 'er up! Very Happy

It was Dave Kawell who said "Paper gaskets went out with sword fighting".
Because i was already a little light preload-wise i left them out,
and instead used just the o-ring and oil-resistant RTV Ray recommended.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



A case with a thick coat of paint is likely to resist electrical grounding.
Sure is a lot easier to clean paint off on the stand here vs. in-car.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



In case this thing ends up sitting it seemed good to write down what was in there before i forgot.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Stashed it in a bag along with a yellow safety label.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Vroom!! (shift).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Vroom! (shift)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

i didn't put any oil in it and just threw the stock CV flanges on (sans caps).
My car is already setup for bus CVs so we'll see if this goes in or not.
Maybe someone out there wants to stab and test it for me? Think


Because I'm already on to the 'dirt' trans! Very Happy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Notice the different colors of bare material.
Could it be that the side cover and nose cone are aluminum,
And the case and gear carrier are mag? Think
Sure looks like it..


Getting ready to finish up the 3/4 hub mods.
Drilled some oil holes in it and made up instructions for either the machinist or me with my friend's lathe.
Here the hub is going to get faced to fit between two 091 snap rings.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Because the 'dirt' trans has everything cleaned and organized and even purchased,
Think I'll dive right in..

This time we'll go a little more anal and methodical with measuring pinion bearing bore and turning torque and whatnot.
Planning on maybe doing ring/pinion setup with just the pinion in place and not the whole stack..

Good fun! Very Happy

Thanks for all of the help!
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bigbore
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

those paper gaskets are only for way early like 1960 to about 64 swing tranys they didn't have the grove for the o-ring and you must use them it part of there shimming. so just use the o-ring on yours. the later 094 hubs modified by Weddle comes with those holes and mod dog slots. by the way I always use the o-ring never sealant there but only sealant on the noise cone only. I cant vouch for your jig job you cant explain it dont be upset if it fails the frist time I learned my teacher said use the manual do the job when it fails take it apart and I will show you what you did wrong.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Stick that built transmission in something! Lets see what you got!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

How about a fork Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

I would probably make a .005" gap for the hub, it's needed at least for me to get the clips into place. You'll press the hub against the 3rd gear side clip pretty good to get the 4th gear side clip installed. Then you can press the hub into the 4th gear clip to set it in it's final position and ensure that 4th gear has enough end clearance.

If you start off at the same thickness and have problems, check end gear clearance on the two gears and see if it make more sense to sand one side than the other.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Yeah haha i sure would like to stick a fork in it and call it done,
But like you said you don't know until you know it's a good one.

I could do like the "major LA rebuilder" that sold this to a guy,
And "warranty" it by letting the guy who bought it deal with pulling it, crating/shipping and a re-stuff! Laughing

Maybe it's like those gift cards that always go unredeemed.
Perhaps their business model assumes that few buyers of cheap rebuilt transaxles are going to even bother with pulling it and shipping it back if it's bad..
Think
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Casting Timmy wrote:
I would probably make a .005" gap for the hub, it's needed at least for me to get the clips into place. You'll press the hub against the 3rd gear side clip pretty good to get the 4th gear side clip installed. Then you can press the hub into the 4th gear clip to set it in it's final position and ensure that 4th gear has enough end clearance.

If you start off at the same thickness and have problems, check end gear clearance on the two gears and see if it make more sense to sand one side than the other.


Thanks for the insight.
I thought that when you clearance the hub for the 091 snap rings,
You just split the difference and take an equal amount off of each side of the hub.

Are you saying that i should build up the stack and take some other measurements before facing the hub?

Guess i need to study these parts a bit more.. Think
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
Bruce and Gears have been missed, but luckily their old info is still find-able.


Are they just not participating or something else?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

AlteWagen wrote:
Clatter wrote:
Bruce and Gears have been missed, but luckily their old info is still find-able.


Are they just not participating or something else?


They probably took one look and thought "Jesus, what a mess!"
And then clicked on something else..! Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Hey everyone hope you can help
i'm doing a transaxle rebuild and 3 studs for the gear carrier came out of their designated holes clean so i can reinsert them with some locktite as new but i was wondering if there are any torque specs i have to do when i reinsert them with the loctite.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
AlteWagen wrote:
Clatter wrote:
Bruce and Gears have been missed, but luckily their old info is still find-able.


Are they just not participating or something else?


They probably took one look and thought "Jesus, what a mess!"
And then clicked on something else..! Razz


That was a clear and accurate post no bs right there.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Bruce doesn't comment as much, not sure I've seen Gears comment much later either.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

Deweyoop2 wrote:
Hey everyone hope you can help
i'm doing a transaxle rebuild and 3 studs for the gear carrier came out of their designated holes clean so i can reinsert them with some locktite as new but i was wondering if there are any torque specs i have to do when i reinsert them with the loctite.

Iam not sure what three studs you are referring to. if you are referring to "three" of the 9 (I think there 8 or 9 studs) you can put the back in with locktite if you want Think you want to know the torque of the nuts on those studs right? there 14 foot pounds.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

bigbore wrote:
Deweyoop2 wrote:
Hey everyone hope you can help
i'm doing a transaxle rebuild and 3 studs for the gear carrier came out of their designated holes clean so i can reinsert them with some locktite as new but i was wondering if there are any torque specs i have to do when i reinsert them with the loctite.

Iam not sure what three studs you are referring to. if you are referring to "three" of the 9 (I think there 8 or 9 studs) you can put the back in with locktite if you want Think you want to know the torque of the nuts on those studs right? there 14 foot pounds.



Talking about these studs in the pictures
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Dummy Learns Transaxle Reply with quote

yep thats what I thought. here what I do with those I put the studs back in put the gear carrier on (empty) put the nuts on (all of them) then torque them just alittle more them spec to test how good the threads are (about 18 pounds) if all feels good the threads are worthy.
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