Author |
Message |
Wulfthang Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018 Posts: 715 Location: Tucson
|
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:38 pm Post subject: 21st century! |
|
|
I finally decided to move into the 21st century, as far as my ignition goes. I've been running a Mallory dual point centrifugal advance distributor on a Ford V6. The points were triggering an old school Delta Mark 10 CDI box that was firing thru a Mallory ProMaster coil
I wanted a rev limiter but had trouble finding what I was looking for. I wanted an adjustable one that didn't require chips and that I could add on to my system. Nothing. So I decided to upgrade my CDI box to a Crane Cams Hi6 CDI box.
It has a built in adjustable rev limiter (With a screw driver), a CDI booster, multiple spark discharge and can be triggered by points. Plus it looks good too.
My engine has no intake air warmer, no choke and four inches of riser under the carb. It is a cold blooded beast! Pump the pedal, hold it slightly open and crank it. Then once it starts, feather the pedal a minute or so to keep it running and it'll be ok.
With this new ignition unit, it fired much easier and kept running right away with no nursing on the gas pedal. Acceleration was snappier and cruising just seems smoother. Overall, I'm very happy with this system.
The old Delta unit that I was running, was also CDI boost but just a little bit less. Besides the rev limiter, the biggest difference, is the multiple sparks. Allegedly, it hits 12 times at an idle and gets less as the revs go up. Seems like ot works. I would recommend it to anybody running points. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12633 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:35 am Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
I got excited at first thinking you went crank trigger. Oh well next time... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kangaboy Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2010 Posts: 1062 Location: St. Louis, Mo
|
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
Wulfthang wrote: |
I finally decided to move into the 21st century, as far as my ignition goes...I would recommend it to anybody running points. |
Ehhh, I don't think I would consider still using points the 21st century, but I digress.
I looked up your setup there and it looks like you have the ability to go crank trigger. If you thought putting the new unit on there was an improvement, wait till you have the rock solid ability to control timing with a crank trigger...although its a little off putting that there doesn't appear to be a MAP sensor on the unit.
You theoretically will still be timing the motor bases solely on RPMs the way it appears now. I'm curious how this unit is any superior to a appropriately paired carb/distributor combo. _________________ -74 Standard - "CaliBug" 2084T, MS3X w/FI and Crank Fire
-76 Westy - "Gandalf"
-18 GTI SE
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
that fucking thing looks like it drove through a J.C. Whitney catalogue and hit everything on the way out |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20366 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
The irony here is most DIY crank trigger system in early years were part ripped off Ford 4 cylinder engines .....
If you really believe you are going 21st century its like mentioned above... CRANK TRIGGER..... Since the real fact is now almost all internal combustion (gas) engines use crank trigger.... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wulfthang Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018 Posts: 715 Location: Tucson
|
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
Ok ok maybe not quite ready for Space Patrol but quite a bit more advanced than the old Delta Mark Ten! I just picked up a Pertronix Ignitor that should fit my Mallory distributor so I'll be replacing the points soon.
Regarding crank triggers: What makes them the hot item and how will it benefit my engine? My engine is a 1974 Ford Cologne V6. I've modified the heads to flow coolant better to eliminate hot spots, put in a mild cam, matched the ports, installed a four inch riser under the modified Holley 4412, improved ignition system and headers, all on a fresh engine. It's probably pushing 185 HP. There are no electronics other than the ignition system and no emissions system. It is most certainly old school. How will a crank trigger benefit me? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12633 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:43 am Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
It takes a signal directly off the crankshaft pulley or flywheel. No other moving parts. Most distributors have 6 or 8 wear points that over time become a problem and contribute to spark scatter. Crank trigger is rock solid. You will see the difference with your timing light.
The other advantage is that you get to build your own timing map with the ability not only to custom make an advance curve but with additional inputs of manifold pressure and temperature. All this can be done with your laptop and a cup of coffee, then downloaded into the car. From there you can fine tune it on the road in real time, even document a few runs up the road and sit down again with your coffee and laptop and analyze what just happened. Changes take just a few minutes.
As Dale M just said this is not a new technology either. I am using a mid '80s Ford EDIS 4 system off the now long out of production Escort car. The bonus it that with a little junkyard shopping the changeover can be done for the same cost as the best of distributors. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20366 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
IN performance section sticky...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=675029
Pretty good explanation here with graphics... It the basics with Crank Fire only....
https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MegaJolt_Lite_Jr.
More exotic systems (Megasquirt) can be combined for EFI ... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wulfthang Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018 Posts: 715 Location: Tucson
|
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
It sounds like I'd need an onboard computer to use a crank trigger. I don't think I can justify that for myself at this point. It doesn't have fuel injectors or a turbo and no computer systems at all. I specifically built the engine to not use any computerized stuff. I even installed the CDI ignition box with plugs so I can just swap a few plugs and bypass it if it fails.
Yeah, I'm sure a crank trigger is more accurate than a distributor but probably not by much. Besides, I rebuilt my distributor last year with new bushings, etc. It's in good shape. I think putting a crank trigger on it would be like adding chrome hubcaps to it. Looks good and is really cool but not really worth it in this case. Thanks for the info and schooling but I guess I'll stay in the 20th century! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20366 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:00 am Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
Wulfthang wrote: |
It sounds like I'd need an onboard computer to use a crank trigger. I don't think I can justify that for myself at this point. It doesn't have fuel injectors or a turbo and no computer systems at all. I specifically built the engine to not use any computerized stuff. I even installed the CDI ignition box with plugs so I can just swap a few plugs and bypass it if it fails.
Yeah, I'm sure a crank trigger is more accurate than a distributor but probably not by much. Besides, I rebuilt my distributor last year with new bushings, etc. It's in good shape. I think putting a crank trigger on it would be like adding chrome hubcaps to it. Looks good and is really cool but not really worth it in this case. Thanks for the info and schooling but I guess I'll stay in the 20th century! |
If you are comfortable to where you are at, so be it.... No need to upgrade.... _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12633 Location: Western Canada
|
Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: 21st century! |
|
|
Wulfthang wrote: |
It sounds like I'd need an onboard computer to use a crank trigger. I don't think I can justify that for myself at this point. It doesn't have fuel injectors or a turbo and no computer systems at all. I specifically built the engine to not use any computerized stuff. I even installed the CDI ignition box with plugs so I can just swap a few plugs and bypass it if it fails.
Yeah, I'm sure a crank trigger is more accurate than a distributor but probably not by much. Besides, I rebuilt my distributor last year with new bushings, etc. It's in good shape. I think putting a crank trigger on it would be like adding chrome hubcaps to it. Looks good and is really cool but not really worth it in this case. Thanks for the info and schooling but I guess I'll stay in the 20th century! |
I went crank trigger because my distributor was in very bad shape. I also wanted part throttle additional advance for fuel economy with my Webers. This is a car we plan to use a lot for long distance trips and summer cruising (10K or more miles a summer expected) so fuel economy and low maintenance was a priority. As I said I found I could do crank trigger for the same price as a rebuilt German distributor from guys here on the Samba and changing the curve and manifold vacuum parameters to match my engine build was a piece of cake. No FI and no turbo. By the way the Ford Escort the system came from didn't either.
The last engine I completed is a weekend toy for local trail riding, I doubt we will put more that 1500 miles a summer on it. I had a matching stock distributor/carb combo that is working just fine so on this one it's old school points, no fancy stuff and going to stay that way. No chrome hub caps this time! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|