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Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket
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alaskadan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

I like option 2 also. But my mind strayed from plywood right away. Some form of expanded steel or aluminum came to mind but Steve's point about shading the roof can't be denied. For how close the spacing is on your cross bars 1/8" aluminum secured with 3/16" stainless pop rivets would be plenty. Nice van.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
Steve--Not a fight here, but a few defensive thoughts on my ply post.
1. Okume ply is marine and will not degrade for the life of the van
2,3,4 NA
5. Use only marine oil paint with a primer first. Interlux Bilge Coat is really tough and will stand up to traffic. I recommend it for porches. And recoat as needed. Paint the underside too. But after the ply is on. Take the rack off and paint then.
6. I agree on thickness. The 9mm has extra cores so more better for the abuse and very little extra weight.
7. You are dead on. Absolutely. White is the only way to go. Any scuffs or stains are above eye level and can be repainted when they become objectionable.

The ply can be removed, but only by destruction if no longer needed or a different idea.

Duncan


Nay, no boxing gloves here!
No problems with the marine ply. I used marine ply on my first rack that I painted and the top layer just peeled off like a bad sunburn.
The thing they pissed me off was that I used the best quality exterior paint then on the next sheet I didn't paint it and it hasn't peeled.
So not sure what's up with that as it was the same marine ply I used. (This one is coming up on 6yrs.)
For those not familar with marine ply vs. regular ply the marine ply is stronger having more layers in it.

The Interlux Bilge coat is a great paint for the bilge. ( I'm in a bilge right now! great wifi onboard!) I've not seen the Bilge Coat used in the sunshine though so not placing bets on it's UV resistance. The exterior Interlux paints work well enough on the hulls so no qualm with them.
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

ANY through fastening will allow water to get into the ply and encourage rot and paint release. If you want the best removable system and be able to protect the rack I recommend the following.

6mm Okume ply. 6 vs, 9. The 9 will be a little more money, but stiffer. I don't think the 6 will flex enough to chatter at speed if there is no load, but it might. And it it does, you can just use some more cross member attachment. The 9 is very unlikely to do that. Think 1/4" vs, 3/8" as that is about what they are. It's just that the rest of the world uses that funny system of measuring and so they call it 6 and 9. But the ply comes in 4 x 8 feet, so go figure.

The cross bar spacing is so close you could almost use cardboard. Epoxy, water proof glue or 5200 pieces of a rot resistant wood, teak, redwood, cedar, etc. to the ply on either side of the cross bars you want to fasten to. I'd go with 1, 3, 7, 11,15 and 18. This wood should be about 2" wide and as thick as the cross bar plus some rubber you would glue to the underside of the ply where it rests on the cross bars. I'd have them 4" long for good gluing and use 4 across. Once everything is all completely painted and ready to go, put it in the basket and screw stainless or wood straps across the underside of the cross bars into the 2" x 4" x ?" pieces. This is serious overkill in terms of the ply not air lifting off. You could probably go with a full length batten across the front side of 1 and then use three across on the back side and also on both sides at 7, 13 and 18. This is the least expensive, durable and removable deck you can do.

If you want an easier removal system, I would put 1/4 stainless carriage bolts through the 2 x 4 x ? pieces of wood prior to gluing. Do this on all 1 and 18 cross members and on the outsides of the others. Nothing in the middle. Then with wing nuts you can reach under and take it off. Or just nuts and use a wrench. At the edges and along 18, you could just use hardwood turn buttons tightened down so they are pretty stiff. I'd want nuts on the leading edge. You don't want to have this look like the mattresses we've seen tied to the roof of cars with a single line and it's folded back at speed.

I do not recommend any other system.

Duncan
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alaskadan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

The glue used is the real difference, you can fir plywood and you can get marine grade fir ply. I actually have been shopping marine ply lately for a boat interior I have build for someone. Darn near unobtaininum right now due to shortages from covid. There are 3 varieties my supplier quoted. There's fir that looks like regular ply as far as number of plys, a hardwood face veneer ply with a few more plys, and a multi ply that has alot of plys and is saturated with resin and is pretty much impervious to water. I ordered 2 sheets of 3/4" for 250 bucks each. No Vaseline was offered.
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

From Boulter Plywood https://www.boulterplywood.com


Note number of laminations in the difference between the 6 and 9. And the 9 is 10 pounds more. But you aren't going to use the whole sheet so maybe 8 pounds and $13.00.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

pemz0r wrote:
I would use a bunch of rubber hose clamps. I don't like the sight of "U" bolts.

This is how I mounted my solar panel. The best part, is that the rubber gets sandwiched between the the metal bar and the solar panel for some sort of anti vibration.

https://www.amazon.com/LOKMAN-Stainless-Cushioned-...4&th=1


I love those clamps. The issue there is screwing them in from the bottom. I do not want to remove the basket, so there is only about 4" of room to work with.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:

The cross bar spacing is so close you could almost use cardboard. Epoxy, water proof glue or 5200 pieces of a rot resistant wood, teak, redwood, cedar, etc. to the ply on either side of the cross bars you want to fasten to. I'd go with 1, 3, 7, 11,15 and 18. This wood should be about 2" wide and as thick as the cross bar plus some rubber you would glue to the underside of the ply where it rests on the cross bars. I'd have them 4" long for good gluing and use 4 across. Once everything is all completely painted and ready to go, put it in the basket and screw stainless or wood straps across the underside of the cross bars into the 2" x 4" x ?" pieces. This is serious overkill in terms of the ply not air lifting off. You could probably go with a full length batten across the front side of 1 and then use three across on the back side and also on both sides at 7, 13 and 18. This is the least expensive, durable and removable deck you can do.

Duncan


This is under some serious consideration. Thanks
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Last appeal.. No footballs or body putty filling where knots were. Just no knots.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

VJP5 wrote:
pemz0r wrote:
I would use a bunch of rubber hose clamps. I don't like the sight of "U" bolts.

This is how I mounted my solar panel. The best part, is that the rubber gets sandwiched between the the metal bar and the solar panel for some sort of anti vibration.

https://www.amazon.com/LOKMAN-Stainless-Cushioned-...4&th=1


I love those clamps. The issue there is screwing them in from the bottom. I do not want to remove the basket, so there is only about 4" of room to work with.


Why would you need to screw them from the bottom? Measure the thickness of the ply wood, say 3/8 thick, then get a button head socket cap screw bolt that is M8 or M10 x 12mm (I am a metric guy) with two washers, one for the top of the wood and one for between the nylock nut and clamp.

Drill some pilot holes in the wood to place the bolt through the hole with one washer, make sure to place the bolt through the clamp, then washer, then nylock. Get a power drill with a 6mm or 8mm allen and hold the nylon lock in place with an open box wrench while you screw the cap in. You would probably only need a clamp on the outside parameter for every 2 or 3 round bars. The bolt end will not stick past the bar if measured correctly.

Top to Bottom order.

Bolt Head
Washer
Wood
Rubber Clamp
Washer
Nylon Lock

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Also adding some right angle aluminum on the edges llike you find at Home Depot would help to keep small items that got loose on you from rolling off the sides.
I think they sell it as big as 2x2", but you do need that much height.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

[quote="DuncanS"]ANY through fastening will allow water to get into the ply and encourage rot and paint release.

I'm not arguing here, just stating my lifetime experience building wooden and fiberglass boats. If you look at wooden boats with through fastenings on the decks, they are counterbored and bunged to have a continuous wood surface. Anything that rests on top with a lip which can have water be drawn under by capillary action MUST be thoroughly bedded in some long lasting waterproof bedding compound. If anyone wants, I can walk you through the back of any boatyard and show you the dead and neglected boats and dozens of places where rot has ruined a perfectly good boat. Even fiberglass boats with a wood core in the decks are susceptible. My current boat
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is fiberglass with 'glass decks. Over the years various POs had fastened on cleats and other hardware without proper bedding. The core was Nomex which is a really good honeycomb system. Water had infiltrated and rotted almost everything. In one place, 3/4" ply had been used as the core to provide better anchoring for hardware. I had to rip off the top layers of fiberglass, remove the rotted core--in the case of the plywood, it came out in rotted layers of veneer. Glue had completely failed. Ultimately had to re core and re lay a new upper fiberglass surface on 95% of her decks. It took hundreds of hours of grinding, new core material, multiple coats of different types of mat, cloth and woven roving and then tedious fairing to get it smooth. I bought the boat from my brother for a dollar. He gave me the dollar back. I tell people is was still the worst investment I've ever made. It was a dumpster boat. Probably have 5000 hours in it.

This happens even with brand new production boats. Often to save money the hardware isn't properly bonded and portholes leak upon delivery right over the pillow of the new owner.

With exposed through fastenings not properly bedded, it's not IF, it's WHEN.

You are justifiably proud of your car which is a valuable part of your life. Don't be like so many of the POs of our cars who did it quickly and cheaply. Treat her with respect and she will get you where you want to go both physically and emotionally.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

I realize the OP wants to use the roof rack as a viewing platform for gorgeous sunsets and starry night skies, but in the end wouldn’t a sheet of aluminum diamond plate be more practical and durable?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

"Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it."

My favorite quote from this forum.

This isn't something the OP needs to last 25 years or needs to structurally support a building foundation. The advice offered here is sound, but this is a SIMPLE project that doesn't need to be so complicated or expensive. Do it simply with minimal time and material investment. If it lasts 5 years it will be worth the $75 dollars and two hours then it can be replaced. There has to be a cost/benefit component and this just isn't worth the amount of discussion here in my opinion. Let's be reasonable and realistic.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

pemz0r wrote:

Why would you need to screw them from the bottom? Measure the thickness of the ply wood, say 3/8 thick, then get a button head socket cap screw bolt that is M8 or M10 x 12mm (I am a metric guy) with two washers, one for the top of the wood and one for between the nylock nut and clamp.

Drill some pilot holes in the wood…


Agreed, and this is the way I will likely go. However, I am trying to limit the number of holes I have to drill. Also, those clamps only fit an M6 bolt. In the ½” size, which is what I need, the pickings are slim. I'd prefer an M8 or M10 as you suggested.


Red Ryder wrote:
… but in the end wouldn’t a sheet of aluminum diamond plate be more practical and durable?


Yes, that would be more durable. If I was still living in a home, with my old arsenal of tools handy, I would probably go that route. But I am semi-retired, living in an apartment with no garage and limited tools. Wood is still the easiest to work with, given my conditions.

PDXWesty wrote:
"Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it."

My favorite quote from this forum.

This isn't something the OP needs to last 25 years or needs to structurally support a building foundation. The advice offered here is sound, but this is a SIMPLE project that doesn't need to be so complicated or expensive. Do it simply with minimal time and material investment. If it lasts 5 years it will be worth the $75 dollars and two hours then it can be replaced. There has to be a cost/benefit component and this just isn't worth the amount of discussion here in my opinion. Let's be reasonable and realistic.


This! If I get 5 years out of this, I'll be happy to do it again. Like you said, it's not much money (relative). I just want it to be safe and functional.


Having said that, I do like learning and both Duncan and Steve have provided some great information that I am happy to know about. Thank you for your contributions to my project.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Good luck with whatever you decide to do and do post a pic of you sitting up there enjoying the sunset and the appropriate beverage.

Duncan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Really intrigued with the basket and started looking closely as to how it attaches and sizes. It appears you have the Mega Warrior with the 20" extension. It's really nice. And the prices don't seem too outrageous. I was a bit surprised to see it mounts on cross members, so now I understand why you have 4 of them. The basket itself weighs 30# and so with the extension of 16# it's now 48#. In any case it seem you have 73" in length.

I realize that you live in a metro apartment and don't have the luxury of a fully equipped shop like many Samba member do

I'm thinking if a person doesn't want to spend the money, although it's really nice looking, the equivalent could be made from just ply as Steve did. Side rails could be screwed on as well.

If I were to do this, I think I'd 5200 a pair of longitudinal 1" wide pieces of fir to go the length of the roof. No gutter towers = less money and weight. I'd paint them well and when I wanted the deck, I'd just screw some ply up there as Steve did. I'd use ½" with some 3/4" stock glued to the underside contoured to the roof which would land on the 4 raised "rib" portions of the roof. Behr paint is latex. I'd use Interlux with non skid added. It would weigh less than the 60ish pounds of the Yakima basket, cross bars and towers. Sorry, but my mind always just keeps trying to figure stuff out whether it needs it or not. I say I suffer from a terminal progressive disease, CMD. Compulsive Modification Disorder.

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Steve M. wrote:
Having had plenty of expereince with plywood on the roof rack:

1.) Do not permanently mount it. It is wood and will deteriate/rot over time and require replacing.
2.) Use the "U" shaped brackets. Those longer brackets will distort the framework by pulling the metal tubing out of shspe.
3.) Before mounting get all your holes drilled for the u-shaped brackets and then use Thompsons Water sealer on the plywood making sure it gets into every hole to soak into the raw wood exposed by the drilled hole.
4.) Use stainless steel stove bolts and nyloc nuts with washers coming down through the top so the bolts do not stick up into the cargo area.
5.) Do not paint it. I used the best quality Behr exterior paint on my first sheet of plywood thinking it would last for years. Did all the proper prep work to paint it and it only lasted 6 months before starting to peel off in strips. It looked like palm leaves blowing in the wind going down the road. Since then I have only used Thompson Water Sealer and the lastest sheet has been on the roof rack since 2016. Reseal it every year.
6.) You only need 1/4" thick marine ply. The framework under it is going to distribute the loaded weight. Weight is your killer and the thinner you can go is best. Even think about 1/8" sheet of aluminum if it is less weight.
7.) The temperature difference between the bare roof and the shafe underneath the plywood is going to be about 15-20° cooler in the shade.

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Nicely painted waste of time and money to remove it 6 months later. Slots cut inyo along the edges are hand holds for when climbing up there and also double as places to use ratchet straps for cargo.

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Road grime will blacken it.


Steve and I seem to hang out in different types of boat yards.

Duncan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Red Ryder wrote:
I realize the OP wants to use the roof rack as a viewing platform for gorgeous sunsets and starry night skies, but in the end wouldn’t a sheet of aluminum diamond plate be more practical and durable?


Having slipped on a rain wet dock today made of diamond plate and seeing two other guys slip on it is the reason boat decks and my roof rack is wood!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

That's why I mentioned non skid.

When I recored my boat decks and put new surfaces on them, non skid was a priority. Since the boat is traditional from a design point of view, I wanted the decks to look "right". After they were faired, I put down Dynel fabric, which is like a fiberglass cloth, to mimic the looks of a canvas deck. Before and even after the war, wood boats had canvas set into wet paint to prevent water from going down the cracks of the deck planking. This was before epoxy and plywood. Lightly painted so as not to fill in the texture of the cloth, it looks exactly like canvas and is non skid. This could be an alternative to just paint on the ply roof deck.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Was it bright anodized? I would definitely use bare or mill finish aluminum, big difference in traction. An aluminum roof rack is in my future some day and I have settled on aluminum deck planks. Spendy , but will serve my purpose of being strong, rot proof and a platform to stand on. I'm pretty sure they had a means of attaching them to a round tube from below with no visible fasteners.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with attaching plywood deck to Yakima Roof Basket Reply with quote

Use whatever thickness ply your comfy with, cut to fit, take it to your friendly neighborhood LineX guy, seal it and use those pipe clamps. Good to go.
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