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‘76 high idle
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Hi, I just joined 10 minutes ago so if I am not in the right place my apologies. I have an awesome little ‘76 beetle with the engine a previous owner swapped for an engine that was made in December of ‘68. I recently replaced the generator and carb for separate reasons and got it running again on Sunday or Monday. It seemed to idle high but I took it around my driveway (a big circle far from the street) to make sure everything worked. The today my Dad and I took it around again because I was still adjusting the carb. My dad noticed that you could push the gas pedal about 3/4 of the way before the pitch changed. Naturally I tried it later and found the same thing, it idles at about 3/4 throttle. I made sure the throttle cable was not holding the throttle lever out. I adjusted the new carb like the directions said but it’s no better. Please help.
Thanks,
Andrew
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Look closely at the pass. side of the carb near the generator and have a helper work the throttle and watch for binding of that little cam with the gen.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

I see no such binding, however I do not know if this makes a difference but I did not have a helper available, so I just moved the lever where the cable connects. When I push the gas pedal to get it started I can hear the lever moving freely if the window is down.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

OK so you need to loosen the screw that holds the cable in the carb arm then hold the end of the cable with your fingers and pull the cable toward the rear of car until it stops then let it go in a little bit until you have a tiny bit of slack then tighten the screw back up (make sure the carb arm stays in the closed position).
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Maybe the accelerator cable on it is incorrect for use with an older carbureted engine.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
OK so you need to loosen the screw that holds the cable in the carb arm then hold the end of the cable with your fingers and pull the cable toward the rear of car until it stops then let it go in a little bit until you have a tiny bit of slack then tighten the screw back up (make sure the carb arm stays in the closed position).

I adjusted the cable and it seemed to work okay but it is still having the same problem. Also the throttle arm is sticking for a second and then it snaps back, I have not yet seen it stick for more than a second or two though.

@cusser it worked fine with the old carb, except that one had other issues that developed later.

Thanks,
Andrew
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

The fuel pump arm can catch on the alternator. Check there for friction.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

boundstaffpress wrote:
The fuel pump arm can catch on the alternator. Check there for friction.

I see no friction when I move the throttle lever by hand.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

A picture of your motor showing the cable connection area would help, just snap a picture put it on your computer then go to Gallery (top of page) and clk. add photo then copy url link and add it to your posting. Feel behind the fan shroud where the throttle cable comes out of the tube that goes through the fan shroud and make sure the tube is coming out of the shroud. If the throttle is sticking you have too much throttle so loosen the cable a little more and try it.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

[/img] https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_cat.php?cat_id=26[/img]
Sorry, not sure if that’ll work I am on my iPhone. There are two photos there. I would like to emphasize the slack in the cable is so great that the cable is barely held in by the barrel nut. The metal tube is coming out both sides of the fan shroud.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Your throttle cable goes on the other side of that arm thats why its sticks if cable has too much slack you may need a shorter one or shorten it yourself.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
Your throttle cable goes on the other side of that arm thats why its sticks
what do you mean by this? Do you have any photos?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

You made a mistake to go adjusting the carb. That is the last thing to do.
1. Oil change. on warm engine after a drive.
2. Valve adjustment on cold engine
3. Ignition timing engine warm or cold.
4 .Carb adjustment. on warmed up engine after a drive.

Also good idea to replace all fuel hoses with brand new ethanol resistant fuel lines in a secondhand car, better to be certain of no fuel leaks that would cause 🔥
Add a new fuel filter also and use fuel line clamps to secure everything snug.
Use a blast of compressed air to blow out the fuel lines to clean them up.
Your accelerator cable might be frayed where you can't see it in the tunnel.
Probably best to replace it, only 5/10 bucks and takes half an hour if you have watched a YouTube how to video first!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

New carbs can take quite some time to dial in.
I found that the best way to tune my new Brosol h 30/31 pic
was to use a vacuum gauge with a tee piece between the carb. Vacuum can line and the carb. The guage cost about 30 bucks. Just drove the car five miles, put gauge in with engine running then adjust mix and iidle screw until it reads the highest vacuum level at idle.
The idle speed is pretty high however it performs very well and drives smoothly.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

[quote="‘76 Bug"]
Starbucket wrote:
Your throttle cable goes on the other side of that arm thats why its sticks
what do you mean by this? Do you have any photos?



/quote]Your barrel nut is backwards take the nut off and put it in the other way so the cable is on the out side of the throttle arm.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

jarmchairpilot wrote:
You made a mistake to go adjusting the carb. That is the last thing to do.
1. Oil change. on warm engine after a drive.
2. Valve adjustment on cold engine
3. Ignition timing engine warm or cold.
4 .Carb adjustment. on warmed up engine after a drive.

Also good idea to replace all fuel hoses with brand new ethanol resistant fuel lines in a secondhand car, better to be certain of no fuel leaks that would cause 🔥
Add a new fuel filter also and use fuel line clamps to secure everything snug.
Use a blast of compressed air to blow out the fuel lines to clean them up.
Your accelerator cable might be frayed where you can't see it in the tunnel.
Probably best to replace it, only 5/10 bucks and takes half an hour if you have watched a YouTube how to video first!


The oil change and the valve adjustment were both done around March, yes I know it’s about time to do it again, but until last week the car had not left it’s parking spot in that time, and not run for more than about five minutes at a time. The distributor that’s on it has a notch and bump that line up to get the timing, the little clips do not clip anywhere else unless the notch and bump are lined up, so adjustment is not an option. The fuel line was replaced just before I bought it, and the filter is brand-spanking new. On the topic of the throttle cable, I got it all to move smoothly now, no sticking. It still idles high though. I know these old Bugs idles around 1,000 rpm but to put it into perspective, I can put the car in gear and without touching the gas pedal start moving. The clutch can move all the way out and only then is it when it gets to about where it used to idle. That’s why I am so confused.
Thanks,
Andrew
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

I don't see anything wrong where his cable attaches to the throttle linkage. But I do see a potential issue with how much space is available between the end of the cable and the tube coming out from the fan shroud. Here is an example pic I found in the gallery:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Look specifically at how much cable extends from the tube until you reach the thicker end of the cable.

Here is the OP's carb:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Even though the throttle is partially open, there is very little room to pull the cable further before the end of the cable will hit the end of the tube passing thru the fan shroud. The tube and the end of the throttle cable should never touch. Your tube is sticking out too far from the fan shroud. Find out how the tube is held in place and push it into the shroud, further towards the front of the car. This will give you more cable play.


Check the adjustment of your throttle cable.
When the pedal is released, the spring on the throttle linkage should close the throttle plate. The screw at the end of the throttle arm should resting on the fast idle cam steps. When fully warmed up, the screw should be resting on the lowest level of the cam. If your cable is hung up, the spring is weak or the throttle is not adjusted properly... the screw at the end of the throttle arm will not be touching the cam. Remove the cable from the throttle arm and make sure the movement of the throttle arm is smooth and the spring has enough tension to fully close the throttle plate.
With the pedal pressed fully to the floor (held in place with a rock), open the throttle until the throttle plate is perfectly vertical. Install the throttle cable into the barrel clamp in the throttle linkage. Check that the throttle plates are still vertical. This makes sure that when you press the pedal to the floor the throttle is WOT. Remove the rock from the pedal and confirm the throttle plate fully closes and the screw at the end of the throttle arm makes contact with the cam.
I like to adjust the cable so the throttle is fully open just before the pedal reaches the floor, but you can play around with the adjustment. It is very important that:
    The pedal can fully open the throttle plate.
    When released, the throttle plate fully closes based on the throttle spring pulling the throttle arm closed.
    There is smooth unbinding motion from fully closed to fully open. Check that the cable is not sticking on the tube thru the fan shroud. Also check the flexible accelerator tube running over the transmission.

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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Thanks ahsman, I pushed the tube into the fan shroud a little this morning. I also noticed after the engine ran for about 15 minutes the choke was still where it was when I started it, and the engine pops now and then as if it is running rich. How do I adjust this to make the choke move once it is warmed up.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

‘76 Bug wrote:
I also noticed after the engine ran for about 15 minutes the choke was still where it was when I started it, and the engine pops now and then as if it is running rich. How do I adjust this to make the choke move once it is warmed up.

The choke heating coil is basically a temperature controlled timing device. When it is cold (1st thing in the morning), the coil is tight and pulls the throttle butterfly closed. When you turn the ignition ON you apply power to the heating element of the choke coil and it starts to warm up. As it warms up the choke butterfly will start to open. After 5-10min the choke coil is fully warmed up and the choke butterfly should be fully open (vertical).

Test:
Remove your choke coil/heating element and stick it in your refrigerator for 5min. This is simulating a cold morning.
Install the choke heating element back into your carb. With the three attachment screws loose, pull on the throttle arm so the screw at the end is not touching the fast idle cam.
Rotate the choke heating coil until the butterfly is 75% closed. Snug the three screws down to hold the butterfly in this position.
Disconnect the green (black?) points wire from the ignition coil #1 (-) terminal. This is to protect the coil and points as we will be powering the coil w/o starting the engine for 10min.
Insert a screwdriver or something into the throttle linkage to prevent the screw on the throttle arm from contacting the fast idle cam. You want the weight of the cam to freely fight the coil in the choke to open up the choke butterfly.
Turn the ignition key to ON/RUN which start to heat up the choke coil. Also start a stopwatch.
As the minutes pass you should see the choke butterfly slowly open as the choke heating element warms up. After 5-10min the choke butterfly should be vertical and the fast idle cam will have rotated so the screw will not rest on the lowest level of the cam.
If the choke opens too quickly, you can rotate the choke element more closed so it takes longer to fully open.
If choke takes too long to open, you can rotate the choke element more open so it takes less time to fully open. Realize you faked the choke into thinking it was a cool morning by sticking it in the refrigerator. Your morning temps may be cooler or warmer than when you started your test. You will need to adjust for this... in fact you will need to adjust the choke at least twice a year as the morning temps change over the year.


If the choke butterfly did not move at all during the test, you have a problem at the choke heating element. Have you applied the correct voltage to properly warm up the choke (6v vs. 12v chokes). Could the choke be old and worn out? Yes, the heating elements fail after a couple decades and need to be replaced.
If the choke moves but just doesn't move enough no matter how long the coil heats up... this is also a sign of a worn out choke. The range of motion falls off over time to the point where you cannot close the choke enough to actually turn ON but still have it turn OFF after 5-10min. Lack of range of motion is another reason to replace the choke heating element.
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76 Bug
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: ‘76 high idle Reply with quote

Thanks again ashman. The test lead me to a couple of questions. 1) where do the wires that go to the reverse light switch go (both terminals on the switch)? 2) where does the wire for the electric choke go?

Allow me to explain, I was doing the test as described in the last post when I noticed the choke hadn’t moved. Naturally I got out my somewhat trustworthy multimeter and checked for voltage at the choke because the carb is only a couple months old. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. Goose egg. 0. So I stopped the test and followed the wire from the choke and it went down under the car, so I did too. This is the good part, I started to recognize the wire from a couple months ago *FLASHBACK* when I was trying to figure out why my reverse lights didn’t work. I was under the car and disconnected some wires to change out the reverse light switch. *FLASHFORWARD* so today I said, “oohh”. That’s right folks you guessed it, the previous owner somehow connected the electric choke to the reverse light switch. That’s right. Two completely unrelated things. That is why I need to know how to power both of these.
Thanks,
Andrew
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