Air cooled Vanagon overheating

[Jake from Skatefarm]

I am driving a 82 Air-cooled gas Westy. It has a VDO oil temp gauge but that's it. It use to cruise around town in the 180-220° range and highway in the 220-240° range but never over 250°. About a month ago it started runner hotter. would get up to 230° in town and upwards of 275°(I would pull over if it went above that) on the highway!

Things I've done; Changed oil (I alway run 20w50), cleaned oil gunk off of engine, and checked to make sure the air way flaps were working/up.

Ive been reading that these aren't exactly extreme oil temps for the air cooled but its concerning that it just went up for seemingly no reason. After some research, these are the possible fixes in order:

1) have timing done. I will get occasional misfires lately and it really can't hurt to have it checked.

2) fix seal between engine tin and van body. Theres about a foot-long 1inch wide gap between the engine tin and van body.

3)have carb tuned/ check to make sure I'm not too lean/rich.

4) replace the bottom engine tins. Everything else is intact besides the two bottom panels

5) check oil cooler. It looks clean but I have no idea how to tell if its working properly/ running oil through it freely.


Is there any other ideas anyone would like to add or maybe any of these I can skip? I am on bit of a budget for the time being but will do what I need to so this thing keeps running great. Thanks y'all

[Wildthings]

Maybe your gauge is just not reading the same any more. Get hold of an IR gun and read the temperature of the engine case seam about 2 inches to the rear of the cover over the oil pickup screen. This should be very close to what your gauge's sending unit sees.

Are your thermostat flaps opening fully?

20w50 oil is too thick if your bearing clearances are tight. If at operating temperature you can make 10 psi per 1000 rpm on a thinner oil you should give it a try. I have run mostly either 10w30 (winter), straight 30wt (summer), or 5w40 (year round) for decades and never had oil related problems.

[GoEverywhere]

If you think your timing has gotten off I'd start there. Timing has a lot to do with engine temperatures and could easily account for what you're seeing.

Unless the seal gap is new that doesn't account for a change in temps, but you should fix it anyway. The better sealed your tins are the cooler you'l run.

[Steve M.]

Synthetic oils handle high heat better than dino oils. A thicker oil like 20w-50 will cause an engine with good bearing clearence to run hotter as it is more resistance to spin the shafts.

Oil and coolant temperatures are two different temps and the engine oil is hotter then coolant temps.
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[space]

Check ur "intake fan" for nests and other debris
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82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs

[Wildthings]

Your tuneup shouldn't have too much effect on your oil temps. Oil temps are more effected by load and rpm. That said you should time your engine at 28° BTDC @ 3800+ rpm, with the hose(s) going to the vacuum can temporarily removed and plugged. Setting it a degree or two less (26-27° BTDC) might bring head temps down another 25°F or so but might effect your power output. The book timing assumes you have all factory parts to your ignition system and FI and that everything works as well as it did when it left the factory, which is highly unlikely nearly 40 years down the road. If you have ignition points versus electronic ignition you should replace the points prior to setting your timing. Don't use Bosch points as their quality has gone to crap over the years, get some Echlin ventilated points from NAPA.

With the engine cold, you can use a boroscope to look down through the hole in the tin for the #4 spark plug wire and inspect the top of the oil cooler for debris. When the engine is hot your view should be blocked by the cooling flap.

[82westyrabbit]

Check for intake manifold leaks. That and timing are your most likely problems. This is of course on top of the other recommendations you already have. I would not change oil type if your oil has been working for you. In general I run whatever oil the manufacturer recommends. I have never seen a plugged oil cooler but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. John

[Vanagon Nut]

Along with Wildthings comments, my first thought was "is this a CA or Federal Vanagon? Does it have points?" It might help posters to know which you have.

I'd be curious if ambient temps are at play here; it sounds like the change in temps was somewhat "sudden".

edited: Looking online, it appears a VDO oil temp gauge uses a sensor with electrical connections. To my mind, if the temp change shown at gauge was relatively "sudden", that could be due to the quality of connection at oil temp sensor, (or its' connection to the engine. e.g. "ground"?) or related wiring to/from gauge.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Wildthings]

My presumption is that a VDO gauge would be an oil temperature gauge and not a head temperature gauge and thus have little to do with head temps. The closest one can come to a "stock" oil temperature reading on a Type 4 engine would be to put the sender where the taco plate was fitted as per what Porsche did when they used these engines. Putting the sender elsewhere in the system can cause the readings to be somewhat different. Shooting the bottom of the case with an IR gun a couple of inches to the rear of the oil pickup screen cover should give similar readings to a sender used at the taco plate location.

FWIW my oil temps have always run pretty low. Typically around town during the summer months they seldom exceed 180°F and out on the highway typically hold at 240°F. The VW oil cooling system doesn't sense oil temperature it senses oil pressure, when the pressure is higher than the system likes to see it lets the oil heat until the viscosity drops to where the pressure is lowered to where it wants it. Oil being dumped back into the sump due to overly high oil pressure doesn't do you any good, it doesn't get a chance to cool the bearings and the pistons.

Ratwell and the Bentley state that for a Vanagon Type 4 engine the oil pressure should be 28 psi @2000 running 30wt oil at 176°F. The numbers are similar for the Type 4 Bay engine, 28 psi @2500 running 30wt oil at 158°F.

[Vanagon Nut]

[Jake from Skatefarm]

Thank you all for the replies. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I’ve had a very busy work week.

I had my timing done. Westy Motorwerks said the timing was “very high” and that he had to keep it fairly high for it to even run. It had no effect on my oil temperature though.

This week I’m going to start looking for some bottom engine tins to get the air cooling the engine properly

[Wildthings]

[GoEverywhere]

[Wildthings]

[Jake from Skatefarm]

Im not sure what he meant by “very high”. I am definitely a newbie when it comes to these things. Also he didn’t say that it wouldn’t run with the recommended timing, he said it was back firing really bad.

I may have stated this in the original post but it’s worth mentioning again that FI system was removed and replaced with a Weber carb. Something the previous owner did.

How would I tell if I had a vacuum leak?

[Alan Brase]

Did anyone notice he has a CARB? Not sure if that is the 49 state or the CA version distributor.
I think the guy that put the carb on needs to get the timing set right.
Yeah maybe the carb needs rejetting?
I'm guessing it has a 009 distributor as well.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[oceanair]

To run this rig right, long and well -- you must fix all of the leaks and have all of the tin. Get a new seal. It's cold air cooled and you are using warm to hot air from the engine, especially in town. You must have everything in place and in good order.

From there, a full tune up with everything in spec and then vacuum leaks must be addressed. replace every old, stiff and cracked hose. be sure that the new ones are sealed up where they connect.

Then you have almost certainly addressed the problem and will have long term cool running. Also the rubber seals on the spark plug wires need to seal the tin.
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back!

[Wildthings]