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hacklete Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:30 pm Post subject: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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Wondering what it costs to get a 2.1L engine put into an 1984 vanagon.
Has anyone had this done lately? Not DIY but at a shop.
I'm new to the vanagon world and considering getting a 1984 with an older 1.9L engine and then putting in a new 2.1 and want to understand what it might cost. |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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You will need to find a good 2.1 core to either trade in or have rebuilt. Also, if you are going to have a rebuilt engine installed with a 2.1 block, you should think about bumping it to a 2.2. the larger piston kit only adds a few hundred dollars more and supplies a noticable bump in power over a 2.1. the good new is that you can install this new engine into your 1.9 just as you would the original engine. On the outside, they are essential the same. The case bolt that holds the intake plenum is different and you need to bend it up out of the way. As for cost, that depends on who's pre-built engine you purchase and who puts it in or what shop you hire to rebuild the core you find...
I have a 2.1 in my '85 using all the 1.9 accessories and early fuel injection. It works great.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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A good quality rebuilt engine should cost about $4500-5000. You can pay less, but you are trading cost savings for doing less machine work and lesser quality parts. Simply swapping the old motor out and putting a new motor in probably could be done for $1500-2000. But then, would it makes sense to install old dirty fuel injectors on a motor you just spent $6,000 installing? How old is the radiator in that 1.9? Does it need a new engine because the old one overheated? Would you put your $6,000 engine in a car with a clogged radiator? If you bought a low-cost rebuilt motor and only paid to have the motors swapped, you might be out the door for $5,000. On the other hand if you buy a good quality rebuild motor and do the things necessary to ensure that it will last a long time and be reliable, you're going to be heading towards $8000 or more depending on what things in this van you KNOW are already in good reliable condition.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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There are two kinds of vanagon owners: those of us with dirty fingers who do the lions share of the work ourselves and those who have deep enough pockets to pay others to do the work. _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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hacklete Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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Thanks for the info. I am new to auto mechanics and while I would absolutely love to do all the work myself, it will take me a few years to get up to speed. So while I have another job, yes I do have some money to hire someone who knows what they are doing to do it. But, you know, maybe I am just a fat cat who doesn't want to get their hands dirty |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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Fortunately for you, you've already found the right place to go for help and advice right here on the samba. If you do a search through old threads you will find lots of stories of the highs and lows of both paying to have your engine rebuilt or doing it yourself. There's lots of information if you dig around looking for it here. There are numerous shops in Northern, Central and Southern California that are known for doing good work on vanagons. Even better, there are plenty of members here such as myself that would gladly stop by and help out or offer advice over a six pack of beer.
Before you buy, make sure you go through the FAC threads regarding what to look for when buying a van. There are lots of clues that can help you decide if the van you are looking at is worthy of the price you will be paying and the work that it may need done to it.
Good luck! _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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While I am glad to hear you want to keep the engine essentially how VW designed them, I have to wonder about how you will feel when you are all done spending something like 10 grand, and having somewhere in the 90'ish horsepower range engine... I know Cali is making things difficult for doing transplants, and I am on the fence with those as well.. Having done the majority of a Subi ej22 transplant in my daughters rig... However, Stevens Auto Haus (https://www.h2ovanagon.com/) might be something to consider, if you actually want to have another hundred ponies than stock. Sure there are drawbacks, but it sounds like you want something reliable, and you have some money to make it what you want. Personally, I like staying in the VW family, and for some this is a big factor in what they are doing in their approach and thought process.
If it were my 1983.5-1985 'baby' and I had the money, sure, I'd find a whole engine, engine harness, (essentially everything in the engine area) and even a super late transaxle (later than say March of '90) and do all the hoses, radiator, etc. I might even consider having someone install the later dash, and all the front harness too, as those old style fuses really turn me OFF. But then again, you might just be way better of starting your whole inner debate by looking at another rig altogether that is in the 'late series' '86+ (and for most of those folks really looking, the 90+). Might be a lot of $'s, but you'd not be needing to do all that transferring of stuff around.
Be aware that Vanagon fever is pretty serious. My dejected 83.5 sits patiently waiting, even seeing yet another Westy show up in my 'stable' of running and parts buses... (5 total now, I've got a particularly bad case of the fever..) _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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hacklete Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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I see what you're saying. I've been having debates of this nature in my head for a few weeks. I'm leaning towards an 86 right now actually. And yeah is it worth the cost for that little extra horsepower? Maybe not.
Yeah I guess I can always accumulate a group of vans of course I don't expect that will be the case, but I don't think anyone does in the beginning. The only thing holding me back is space right now. They sure are tempting though! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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You could buy a used engine pretty cheap from a shop that does Subaru or other conversions. If you get every last part you need to do the upgrade to a 2.1L its not that big of a deal to install one, but that every last part can be hard to come by as you don't know what it is going to be until it is needed.
When I converted my 83 1/2 to a 2.1L I had an engine I had acquired for a shop that did conversions and most everything I had removed from my 91 when I converted it to a 2.2l Subaru. There were still a few snags, but it was not a bad swap as swaps go. |
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erdonline Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2004 Posts: 943 Location: CT
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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In my opinion, the differences between the 2.1 and the 1.9 are not worth installing at this point unless the current engine is really on its way out. But then you've got a few choices to make. The engine management system, cooling and exhaust are different for the 1.9 and the 2.1. but if you swap over whole systems, they are interchangeable. In other words you could unbolt everything from your current engine and put it on a 2.1 with the few details mentioned in another post. Or you could swap over the engine management system of the 2.1 and even the cooling and exhaust. The newer cooling system hoses are a little easier to get a hold of and parts for the 2.1 engine management can be cheaper and more available. But I wouldn't do any swap just to go from 85 horsepower to 92 horsepower.
Ed _________________ '85 Vanagon Westfalia
'84 Vanagon 7-passenger
'98 Mexican air-cooled Beetle |
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davlance01 Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 224 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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I wouldn't give up my 1.9 for nothing. _________________ Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast! |
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hacklete Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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Well, I've had some advantures in the last few weeks looking for my van. But those are stories for another thread.
Currently looking at a 84 that needs a rebuilt engine as 2 of the cylinders are gone. Would be 8k approx for a rebuild and install according to my mechanic.
I also have the option to go to 2.1. If that options on the table with a complete rebuild necessary anyway is it still the same considerations do you think?
I wish I had a garage to work on it myself! |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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davlance01 wrote: |
I wouldn't give up my 1.9 for nothing. |
that's HILARIOUS given the signature line in your post
davlance01 wrote: |
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast! |
I wouldn't run a 1.9 any further than the local playground.
there's hills in them there woods..
and I do NOT enjoy the close up view of the front grill of dump trucks and semi's
played that 45mph up interstate grades game once... once.. fuq-dat _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 2982 Location: MD
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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I once hit 84mph (indicated) with my 1.9 powered Syncro.
Down a long hill. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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so close to going back to the future.. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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To the OP, the considerations are still the same. If you want to go from 1.9 to 2.1 (or 2.2 or 2.3) you will need to come up with a 2.1 core. Or, at least find a good 2.1 crankshaft and the appropriate pistons go make the change to a 2.1+ engine displacement. If your mechanic were to try and rebuild your 1.9 case with a 2.1 crank, he would need to find new bearings for the 1.9 case. To my knowledge, those bearings are NLA. Three of the main bearings are the same as what is found in a 1600cc air cooled bug engine, but the fourth bearing is unique to the 1.9. Bearings for the 2.1 case are much easier to find.
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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hacklete wrote: |
Well, I've had some advantures in the last few weeks looking for my van. But those are stories for another thread.
Currently looking at a 84 that needs a rebuilt engine as 2 of the cylinders are gone. Would be 8k approx for a rebuild and install according to my mechanic.
I also have the option to go to 2.1. If that options on the table with a complete rebuild necessary anyway is it still the same considerations do you think?
I wish I had a garage to work on it myself! |
Pickup an engine that has been removed to do a Subaru (or other) swap for $500, install it over a couple of days, and be on your way. |
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hacklete Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2021 Posts: 5 Location: CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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I love your optimism @wildthings
My neighbors would also love to see me do this on the street in front of my apartment 😂😂 |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of 1.9 -> 2.1L engine |
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I recently replaced a worn 2.1 in an '84 van. I recommend keeping the 2.1 Digifant and exhaust, but using your existing 1.9 cooling system. It's mostly a plug n' play proposition. I sold my excellent running 2.1 complete with the wiring harness and ECU for $300. This is one of the least expensive and simple engine swaps available for these vans. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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