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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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Alright, today I installed one extended UBJ while working on my axle and boots, I gotta install the other side tomorrow.
Some pics:
Installed
Comparison on a pair of old 2WD upper control arms (UCA)
Left is old chinese Lemfoerder ball joint with 15mm spacer
Right is extended T3 Technique UBJ
More comparisons
Notice how the old boot clip had popped, and the boot was torn from pinching.
I had installed these UBJ in El Salvador a few months ago, maybe 4K miles on them. They're still good, but for how long? Notice the water and dirt ingression.
The previous ones died at 10K miles give or take, one side had crazy play, the other was just very loose. Of these 10K miles, most were off road or dirt roads.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
Alright, today I installed one extended UBJ while working on my axle and boots, I gotta install the other side tomorrow.
Some pics:
Installed
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I'm surprised nobody caught the UBJ is cockeyed in this picture.
I rushed last night to finish the job with a blood pissing finger to get home on time for a Zoom meeting. I thought it looked a bit weird but it went over my head like nothing.
Shame on me.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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Well, Syncro owners might want to hold off a bit, the holes don't match on my extended UBJ. They were a bit off but fit the 2WD when I took the pictures bc the holes have more play in the stamped steel UCA.
That is not the case with the cast UCA of the Syncro, that's probably why I ended up mounting the UBJ cockeyed.
Some Lemförder UBJ from 2021 had that issue that I documented on the forum. It'd be very unfortunate Chris sent one of these to get the over all dimensions to design his UBJ, but the coincidence is strong.
Anyway, I'm sure he'll get this addressed as soon as possible. He's been informed as well.
My message is of public utility so you don't end up ordering something until things are clear to save him some extra trouble to deal with.
I'm still happy with the quality, once the holes will line up. It'll be great !
Syncro
2WD
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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Welp, I guess these are the teething pains I have to go through with a new product like this. I'll get it all fixed and replace any that have already made it to owners who have fitment issue.
For the record, these are NOT copies of the Chinese Lemforder upper ball joints. The Chinese Lemforders were never even part of the design or build process of these new joints. I've done my best to come to market with a new product and even though we have had this setback, it does not diminish the fact that once this small issue is worked out, they will be a great product.
After going through boxes and boxes of these things, what I have have found is that there is some inconsistency in the drilling of these holes in the joint body. Some fit perfectly and others do not. I'm going to have to get the manufacturer to tighten up their tolerances.
So here's the deal. THESE FIT ALL 2WDs WITH NO ISSUES. If you need to fit them to a Syncro right away, the current batch of joints can be used, but you may need to open up the holes in your control arms just slightly. When I say slightly, I mean just a tiny little bit. The photo shown above appears to be exaggerated a bit in that if the left bolt (as seen in the photo) were to be loosened and the joint rotated counter clockwise, the right side hole should be very, very close to allowing the bolt to thread into the joint. At least that's the way it is with every single joint I just finished up test fitting. This is not to say that it's okay for the joints to be this way (and they will be fixed for future batches), but rather that if you need to install these joints asap, you can. If you have a set that do not fit and you want replacements, I'd be happy to send you replacements once I have them in hand.
I hope you all can be understanding and patient with me on this. I will get it all worked out and make all current orders right in terms of replacements.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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In addition, I would like to add that most of the joints I tested can be installed on Syncro Control arms, even though the bolt holes may not line up perfectly. I just went out to the shop and test fit a few dozen joints into a Syncro UCA, so I know this is true.
The trick is to install the left side bolt by only about one turn (left side as seen looking into the wheel well). Then rotate the joint clockwise to line up the holes as close as possible. Insert the right side bolt and get the threads started. You won't be able to finish tightening the bolt by hand, but if you use a wrench, you can tighten both bolts all the way without issue. Granted, there were a couple of the joints that I tested that were off enough that this trick did not work, but I would say abut 90% of the joints that at first appeared to not fit, can actually be installed in this manner.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Last edited by Christopher Schimke on Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skemems
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2017
Posts: 206
Location: Portland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
Welp, I guess these are the teething pains I have to go through with a new product like this. I'll get it all fixed and replace any that have already made it to owners who have fitment issue.
I hope you all can be understanding and patient with me on this. I will get it all worked out and make all current orders right in terms of replacements. |
This. I get issues can happen, especially on a new product. Just based on your response to it, I will be placing an order for a set for my 2wd.
_________________
87 VW Westfalia - EJ25
86 VW Westfalia - EJ22
85 VW Westfalia - WBX 2.1 project |
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Kdj
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2017
Posts: 142
Location: Naptown
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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I copied this from another post. When I saw it last week it, struck me as " that guy really seems to care about what he sells".
Did you have all of the bushings replaced? Would you mind PMing on who did the work? It's probable that I sold them the bushings and I would like to be able to discuss the situation with them if possible so that hopefully it won't happen to future customers. It's not normal for the urethane bushings to squeak if the correct grease has been used and it has applied liberally to all of the necessary surfaces.
_________________
Christopher
I've bought quite a few products from Christopher and been pleased with all. Props for the quick, public reply to a problem with a new product that you brought to a niche market. I haven't installed my uppers yet. But now I have more info for when I do. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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Hi Chris!
Thanks for testing the fit!
I must be in the 10% that don't fit at all, I tried the loose bolt to gain thread into the other hole before posting here, that's not my first rodeo, there's no way it's close to threading.
I just mentioned the Lemförder's as it could have been a base for the general drawing, I didn't imply it was a copy, clearly it's not the same product. It could have been the reason for replicating the hole location mistake, but it's not the case.
I'll get a replacement, I'm not drilling intolerance my UCA's 
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:49 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| I'll get a replacement, I'm not drilling intolerance my UCA's |
As the housing is centered in the hole you won't have a geometry error.
However I neither would modify the arm.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:48 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| ZsZ wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| I'll get a replacement, I'm not drilling intolerance my UCA's |
As the housing is centered in the hole you won't have a geometry error.
However I neither would modify the arm. |
I didn't mention it would create a geometry error, I just don't want to do an unecessary modification to my UCA bc I'm too anal for that.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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vwhammer
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Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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remraf
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
In addition, I would like to add that most of the joints I tested can be installed on Syncro Control arms, even though the bolt holes may not line up perfectly. I just went out to the shop and test fit a few dozen joints into a Syncro UCA, so I know this is true.
The trick is to install the left side bolt by only about one turn (left side as seen looking into the wheel well). Then rotate the joint clockwise to line up the holes as close as possible. Insert the right side bolt and get the threads started. You won't be able to finish tightening the bolt by hand, but if you use a wrench, you can tighten both bolts all the way without issue. Granted, there were a couple of the joints that I tested that were off enough that this trick did not work, but I would say abut 90% of the joints that at first appeared to not fit, can actually be installed in this manner. |
Chris, I just took delivery of some stock length ball joints from you. I have a syncro that is currently in the paint shop. Ordered these and hoping to get the lowers when they're ready to do the whole front end in one go. Do you have any return window on these? If you're flexible on timing I'll just hold off as planned or could return them and re-order when tolerance issue is resolved. |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:45 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| remraf wrote: |
| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
In addition, I would like to add that most of the joints I tested can be installed on Syncro Control arms, even though the bolt holes may not line up perfectly. I just went out to the shop and test fit a few dozen joints into a Syncro UCA, so I know this is true.
The trick is to install the left side bolt by only about one turn (left side as seen looking into the wheel well). Then rotate the joint clockwise to line up the holes as close as possible. Insert the right side bolt and get the threads started. You won't be able to finish tightening the bolt by hand, but if you use a wrench, you can tighten both bolts all the way without issue. Granted, there were a couple of the joints that I tested that were off enough that this trick did not work, but I would say abut 90% of the joints that at first appeared to not fit, can actually be installed in this manner. |
Chris, I just took delivery of some stock length ball joints from you. I have a syncro that is currently in the paint shop. Ordered these and hoping to get the lowers when they're ready to do the whole front end in one go. Do you have any return window on these? If you're flexible on timing I'll just hold off as planned or could return them and re-order when tolerance issue is resolved. |
I'm not putting a timeframe on this. If a customer has a set that doesn't fit, I'll take care of them, period. Since some fit and some don't, I would recommend holding on to them until you can see if there's an issue or not.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:53 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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*ATTENTION -
If you purchased a set of UBJs from us for use on a Syncro (SYNCRO ONLY! Not 2WD), please send us a message via email (email only - [email protected]) so we can do our best to make list of how many people need replacements.
Thank you, and sorry for the hassle this has caused.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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vanis13
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Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3100
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:05 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
*ATTENTION -
If you purchased a set of UBJs from us for use on a Syncro (SYNCRO ONLY! Not 2WD), please send us a message via email (email only - [email protected]) so we can do our best to make list of how many people need replacements.. |
Nice to see the proactive way you are handling this.
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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chrismsnt
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Joined: March 06, 2018
Posts: 247
Location: Cumming, GA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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So... are the Syncro tall uppers good to go to purchase again or is there a hold until something is figured out with the machining or the likes? What was the verdict on this one?
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Chris
1989 T3 Vanagon 16" Syncro
1967 Squareback
https://vwvandiesel.com
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique Ball Joints - Not created equal |
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| chrismsnt wrote: |
| So... are the Syncro tall uppers good to go to purchase again or is there a hold until something is figured out with the machining or the likes? What was the verdict on this one? |
For the Syncro application, I'm selling them on an as-requested basis so I can make sure the joints that are shipped fit the Syncro arms. Feel free to shoot me an email via the website and I can send you an invoice if you want to go this route.
The next run should be ready sometime in the Spring.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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djkeev
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