Topside Wear on #1 Exhaust Rocker Arm

[catadromous]

Hi all,

Just got my first bus and finding my way around. It's a 68 Westfalia in great overall condition. Single port 1600cc (I think anyhow, has an AB Engine # and there was a rebuild in 1982 after #3 burned valve... not too many miles on it since then, maybe 20,000? Most recent owner just replaced cylinders and pistons).

I found some strange wear on the topside of the actual body of the #1 Exhaust Rocker Arm, like it was rubbing on something. Someone shimmed the end there with two fat washers, everywhere else has the stock washers and wavy/spring washers. There's not any wear on the Exhaust valve spring or on the nearby bolt or anywhere that I can see. I also remember that I couldn't really get the feeler gauge in there while I was adjusting the valves, I ended up backing the adjustment screw all the way into the rocker arm. I guess that means the valve is sitting too high for some reason?

Any ideas? Thank you in advance.

Brandon

[borninabus]

it looks like that rocker spent some time rubbing on a head stud that was sticking up too far. or was clearanced to avoid that situation. i'd be just as concerned with that adjuster screw. why does that spring retainer look different from the rest? gonna need some pics of that valve stem end and adjuster screw face.

you have a problem with that valve and/or it's seat.
don't run it in this state.
_________________
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[busdaddy]

That's grinder work on the arm and washers, can't figure out why though, access to retorque heads without removing the rocker maybe?, savage!

Mighty clean in there, like it's somewhat fresh, but why is that valve up like that?, some deeper investigation now might save a catastrophic even later.
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[aeromech]

You need a new engine. Where do you live?
_________________
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[catadromous]

Okay, photo time. Thanks for your help everyone : )

[SGKent]

or someone removed the stud and replaced it with Vise grips. That stud may have pulled and the case & stud were not repaired properly. Those appear to be the older style studs. The case and heads may have been cut too. I would be concerned that someone just tossed that engine together however they could to get it going. There is a lot of that which goes around with flippers selling buses.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[aeromech]

You need a new engine, sorry. But you do.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[airschooled]

[Danwvw]

I am going with the previous owner or mechanic ground the rocker down before realizing the stud was backed out But then tightened the stud.
Maybe just get some solid rocker shafts for it. "Scat" are nice. And or maybe better yet get some good swivel adjusters too. PS Because that one adjuster is all the way out you will probably need at least .060 or .080 shims under the rocker arms plus grind the arms back so the swivel adjusters will fit.
One more thing. Sometimes a exhaust valve seat starts to pound into the cylinder head and the valve will keep needing adjusted further out to maintain the clearance needed. Better just bolt it together and adjust the valves first and drive it another 1500-3000 miles to see if the adjustment is holding, If not get the head rebuilt then install the Solid Rocker Shafts and swivel adjusters. Swivel adjusters prolong the life of valve guides.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[SGKent]

[airschooled]

Those look like original rockers, and the head studs seem to be poking out a lot…

Do the head studs torque up to 18 foot pounds?

The arm and wave washer look to have been “machined” the same amount, so either a human or an architectural issue did this. Question is, did it happen on the current build, or the last one?

How does it drive? Does it make odd noises?
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[SGKent]

[aeromech]

I’m in the market which says you need a new engine. Sure, I guess someone could come along and install the rocker arm geometry correctly but what about the head studs pulling. You’re going to throw bandaids on a tramma wound hoping that the blessing stops long enough to reach the hospital.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[SGKent]

what Gary is saying is that if you are going to enjoy a VW bus you don't want to be worrying about breaking down 350 miles from home.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Danwvw]

Yes torque the other head bolts that you can reach under the valve cover before putting it back together. If they torque ok all will be good. What 25 foot lbs?
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[aeromech]

What Gary is saying is you have a 1982 rebuild. Then a recent piston cylinder swap and really poor workmanship including rocker arm geometry.

Best to find a quality long block rebuilder and start down the right tract with you new bus so you can just enjoy it
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Danwvw]

There is one other possibility.
The rocker could be shifting off the valve to one side!

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[catadromous]

[aeromech]

Hot damn, you’re in Pagosa Springs which is super close to Durango. We have a Type 1 expert living in Durango who has the hook up with a great mechanic there. Contact Rich Parker.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[telford dorr]