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epowell
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 Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I've been doing some work on the rear brakes and backing plate and figured I should squirt in some new grease into the bearings.
In order to get the backing place off (while the frozen in e-brake cable was still in there) I needed to get the stub pushed in a little bit into the CV area - so I gently tapped it in.
Now I removed the oil seal, and the bearing race is OUT ---- is this normal? Can you just push or tap it back in, or is it now screwed?
I very very very gently tried to tap it back in but as you can see on the pic the individual bearings are sort loose....
I am not really sure what I am doing here and would appreciate some insight - THANKS!!
Ed
PS - If I must replace bearings is it necessary to replace both sides at the same time?
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
While you are this far along, pull that inner race and clean it.
Now examine it for excessive wear and heat damage.
It will be a clue showing if you should continue on and renew the rear bearings.
Dave |
Thanks Dave, but what about this iinner sleave of the outer bearing - I can't push it back in..... should it be able to go back in??
Thanks
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spitsnrovers
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Joined: December 17, 2005
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Yes it should and must go back in. In the photos I see two rollers dropped down below the rest. Are they catching that sleeve?
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| spitsnrovers wrote: |
| Yes it should and must go back in. In the photos I see two rollers dropped down below the rest. Are they catching that sleeve? |
Yes... they are catching.
So is it normal that the sleeve can pop out like this? ...and should just slip back in...?
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djkeev
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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AH... OK...
...so yes a couple of the bearings had dropped down. I fiddled with them and managed to plunk them back into their slots, and the sleeve slipped with in easily.
But it does not go all the way in to be flush with the housing... I wonder if this is OK.
This pic shows how far it can go in. Other than this it seems OK.
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turbotype1
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Joined: April 30, 2005
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Location: seacoast
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Your good....
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| 117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
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Sodo
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Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I don’t __recall__ the rollers dropping down.
Aren’t they in a cage?
If they are in a cage, I’d wanna know why they came out.
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
I don’t __recall__ the rollers dropping down.
Aren’t they in a cage?
If they are in a cage, I’d wanna know why they came out. |
I rotatoed the bearing so the 2 that had plopped out were on the bottom, then I very gently reached in with a very clean medium sized flathead screw driver and pushed down on them one at a time, and they kinda "snapped" back into place.
I also don't know why they came loose..... is this common?
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epowell
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| I’d wanna know why they came out. |
As I said on the OP, I had to get that stub IN a bit in order to remove the backing place because it was still frozen to the e-brake sleeve.
So I tapped on the stub but it wouldn't move... then I put a 2x4 on the end of the stub and hit it with medium-soft force to get it in. This wack must have been the jolt that loosened those 2 rollers.
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dgbeatty
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Perhaps a review of Bentley 42.4,5 is in order. Both outer roller bearing (radial load only) and inner ball bearing (both axial, main function, with radial as a secondary function) are intended to be removed and installed as units.
The inner bearing is retained by a circlip. The outer bearing is simply pressed into place as it carries no axial load. Taking a shortcut, while well intended, is ill advised.
In these types of bearing there will always be a small amount of play by definition.
The removed bearings must be inspected for cracking and lack of contact with the housing. Ideally the housing should measured to ensure it is not out of round nor out of tolerance. VW did make heavy duty housings as used on the 16s. Third parties now make 14" heavy duty housings as the originals were never meant to have large heavy wheels and tires.
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pathao
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I have to say I do not agree, I do not think you are ready to go.
I bet that when you push that stub axle, rust/dirt got between the axle and the inner seal/inner bearing seal.
I think you should remove the wheel housing, from the trailing arm, and do proper cleanup/check and replace the inner seal.
(I also mean : you gone have to unbolt the axle from the stub axle, naturally)
The axle shaft is press-fit/slide-fit into the inner bearing - spacer sleeve - outer bearing. When you remove the castle nut - wheel hub there is nothing to keep everything together. So yes, one should expect the inner races to move out of position if you bang the axle shaft.. So now you may have grease/dirt between the inner races / sleeve-spacer assy. I wouldn't consider new/clean grease to be a problem. It should squeeze out when you tighten the castle nut back to 300lbs. But contaminated grease. Best scenario, you don't need to worry about it, but I look at your photo and, after you push it back, ther position of that inner race looks 'funny'.
And I would trust that inner seal to last very long.
my2cents
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epowell
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| pathao wrote: |
I look at your photo and, after you push it back, ther position of that inner race looks 'funny'.
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Yeah I feel a bit uncomfortable about the fact that I can't now push it 100% of the way back in... only 95%. But I supposed once I torque on the axle nut everything will squish into place. (?)
No dirt got in there... and I am now squirting in new fresh grease (which forces out a lot of the old dirty stuff).
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turbotype1
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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It doesn't go in all the way.... If you are sure no dirt got in the inner, you're good to go
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| 117harv wrote: |
This new fad of get it the lowest, or run it with the worst looks, (patina) isn't cool, it's for the hey everyone look at me crowd, i'm driving a beat down ratty, unsafe, VW, how cool am I ???...your not....
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Pissing off the purists since 1997
Wanted: Boyd Motors plate frame
57 Turbo Oval Sliding rag
67 13 window delux walk-thru- now 21
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T3 Pilot
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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epowell
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| turbotype1 wrote: |
| It doesn't go in all the way.... If you are sure no dirt got in the inner, you're good to go |
Good to hear.
I am going to be doing (re-greasing) the CVs anyway - perhaps it would be good to do that while I still have everything apart?
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Sodo
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| Yeah I feel a bit uncomfortable about the fact that I can't now push it 100% of the way back in... only 95%. But I supposed once I torque on the axle nut everything will squish into place. (?) |
No way.
It should push 100% in to seat, "by hand".
You have to find out why it won't go in.
Grease can resist some.
Maybe push it in with the big nut, but careful, and it shoud be very easy to turn the nut, until it stops "abruptly" at 100%.
If you can't get that "abrupt stop" at 100% you have to take it apart, clean everything and find out WHY.
Or this rear bearing set is going to be disassembles AGAIN to find out WHY in 100miles.
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epowell
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
Maybe push it in with the big nut, but careful, and it shoud be very easy to turn the nut, until it stops "abruptly" at 100%.
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Good thinking... I will try that with the 46mm nut - gently.
I wonder if removing the CV now might help - since I want to do that anyway?
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pathao
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I made a typo, a meant
"And I would not trust that inner seal to last very long."
If you feel the bearings are okay don't touch that.
The dirt I am afraid of is not between #14 - #12 - #13 but between #11 and #16 (or #11 - #14). Which would ruin that seal pretty quickly.
If you are going to disassemble the driveshaft CV joint. You only got 4 more bolts to remove the hub housing assy. I think the castle nut is the toughest to remove and you are way past that.
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