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ZsZ
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Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1644
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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 Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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As I wrote you, the inner race of that bearing is wider than the outer.
Here I found the pic of my new bearing set I bought a few years ago:
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1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32561
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| epowell wrote: |
Thanks Zoltan...
...here is an update on my situation:
I started to deal with the OTHER side, and the same thing happened. However with this side it was not necessary to tap/hammer on the stub to get it to slide in - rather, it just pushed back in easily by hand pressure. BUT..... after pushing it in, when I pulled it out again it pulled out that sleeve - just like what happened on the other side. However, with this one I pushing the sleeve back in immediately before any of the rollers had a change to 'escape ' their positions 
So I noticed that on both sides the sleeve, when pushing all the way in to the "full stop", both protrude about 2.5mm. So I realise that this is the normal correct position - and there is nothing 'wrong' with either side.
I used the needle and injected a LOT of new grease into the outer bearings, and was able to get some of the old dirty grease out.
My neighbor who is an excellent mechanice implored me NOT to open the CVs to change the grease UNLESS a boot has been damaged. He said that if the boots are OK then no dirt can get in there, and that the original grease, even 40 years old, is still better than the crap they pass off as grease today - so I should just leave them alone.
He also suggested leaving the hub and the inner seal alone also. |
With all due respect your helpful neighbor is just so very wrong.
Lubricants today far exceed what they had 40 years ago!
Not to mention that 40 year old grease has microscopic pulverized metal in it build up from years of wear.
There is no #1 better service that you can do to your bearings and axles than to remove the old grease, clean them, inspect them and if ok, grease and assemble.
The real problem is MIXING old unknown grease with modern lubricants…… just like you are already doing.
Even modern lubricants don’t always play nice with each other.
Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9600
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| epowell wrote: |
My neighbor who is an excellent mechanice implored me NOT to open the CVs to change the grease UNLESS a boot has been damaged. He said that if the boots are OK then no dirt can get in there, and that the original grease, even 40 years old, is still better than the crap they pass off as grease today - so I should just leave them alone.
He also suggested leaving the hub and the inner seal alone also. |
With all due respect your helpful neighbor is just so very wrong.
Lubricants today far exceed what they had 40 years ago!
Not to mention that 40 year old grease has microscopic pulverized metal in it build up from years of wear.
There is no #1 better service that you can do to your bearings and axles than to remove the old grease, clean them, inspect them and if ok, grease and assemble.
The real problem is MIXING old unknown grease with modern lubricants…… just like you are already doing.
Even modern lubricants don’t always play nice with each other.
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This is kind of an important issue here. Removing the contaminants is the benefit and grease does wear out (per se).
Mixing greases: Greases are generally "soap base" and "lithium base". If you mix the two, the mixture can be lower lubricity than either of the two. Sometimes MUCH lower, thus detrimental for a highly stressed, precision rolling element. 
It's real hard for a regular guy to know what greases can be mixed or AVOID.
It's difficult for an expert especially if there's no label to identify what's in there.
This is not an easy subject.
Don't mix "waterproof" with "normal".
Being that this is a wheel bearing, I assume you are using "wheel bearing grease", right?
If it's labeled "wheel bearing grease, you're likely OK.
Don't mix in any "waterproof wheel bearing grease" ( for boat trailers etc) that's a different base. You need good seals, not boat trailer grease.
Mixing greases makes absolutely no difference lubing your shift linkage or seat rails for example.
This is an issue for your wheel bearings & CV joints. Possibly for Ball joints too (if the greasable type).
Anyway your neighbor is probably right for a Toyota etc.
Where monkeying around with it adds risk that leaving it alone does not.
And he's seen this with customers over the years.
But Vanagon CVs somehow wear out faster than other cars and can use more TLC.
Often because the boots don't last (on lifted vans?).
Of course you could simply wear them out and replace them.
It's not like CVs are "No Longer Available".
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Gnarlodious 
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Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| ...the original grease, even 40 years old, is still better than the crap they pass off as grease today... |
I have to object to your neighbor's statement. I’m fixing up my grandfather's 1978 Rabbit with only 55k miles on it, but it sat parked for 27 years. The axles were snapping and popping around corners. Taking it apart, the original CV grease was all dry and hard but the parts were undamaged. The grease was not even moly, it was plain black grease. It just goes to show that lubrication technology has come a long ways since 1978, today’s CV lube is highly engineered and vastly superior.
Wish I could say the same for the rubber boots!
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Last edited by Gnarlodious on Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:51 am; edited 4 times in total |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Ed,
You need to take off the CV's and service them. Really. Clean them up, inspect for abnormal wear, regrease, install. I would run the old boots if they are not torn. New boots have been a problem for a while now.
The VW moly grease sold in the pouches is as good as what was used originally. Still stains clothes as well too.
You are not doing those joints any favors by leaving them alone. Just do it. 
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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+1000
Needles are for heroin and crack
Get them off, shiny clean in solvent, repack. Repeat every 30,000 miles
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epowell
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| Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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djkeev
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dobryan
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epowell
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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No  I'm about to ride down to LORDCO and pickup some CV grease.
Neighbor is really really great! He already saved me a TON of time with some first class advice - but I noticed he also said some other stuff which I don't think he got quite right. One thing I have learned is that these vans are a unique species so I am very careful to take advice about my van from an "outsider". He is all of his work on a Datsun 240Z. But very impressive stuff - He said he learned his tricks by doing an OFF-ROAD Datsun race from Panama to Alaska!!! He said they had to repair the car numerous times in the middle of nowhere - deserts and places with no parts. He said he learned that the engine is full of nuts and bolts, that if you are in an emergency, can be scavanged to repair a more critical part of the car.
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dobryan
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Jake de Villiers
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| epowell wrote: |
| He said he learned that the engine is full of nuts and bolts, that if you are in an emergency, can be scavanged to repair a more critical part of the car. |
Rod bolts make great exhaust bolts in a pinch....
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Now I'm stuck....
Got all the CVs off, got the c-clips off, but can not seem to even POUND the CVs off the axles... (hammering on the inner star only of course).
Guess I'll keep on pounding?
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valvecovergasket
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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do you have a vice? to lay the CV against while you pound the inner portion?
or access to a press?
take them to your local shop and hand them $20 to press them off? will only take them 10 min with a press
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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My vice is wimpy and my press is in Czech...
I am seriously considering attempting to DIS assemble to CVs in situ. Has anyone done this?? Just leave the STAR on the AXLE and disassemble the rest?
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epowell
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I got the balls out and the outer race off... in situ... but the middle race won't come off.
I am going to try to do the cleaning, checking, and reassembly like this with just 'partial' disassembly.
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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I just made a very bad and stupid mistake.
Hammering on the star I needed to pull the cover plate out of the way and it seems that it gouged the boot and cut it.
I wonder if this can be repaired somehow?
Or maybe better to try to find an original replacement from a junk yard locally? I don't really want to put an aftermarket one on there.
Any suggestions?
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djkeev
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epowell
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Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Did I just screw up these REAR BEARINGS, or is this normal? |
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Good to know Dave.
There is a place in Vancouver (Surrey), called Alpi's which specializes in European car salvage - they have a Vanagon (two actually), and will sell the complete axle for $100CAD u-pull yourself.
I guess that is an option, but then I would have to go there and pull it, and still somehow get the whole CV off of my axle.
So, for now, since in the near future I don't have any huge long trips planned (perhaps next Summer), and since this cut does not actually go all the way thru - so currently there is no actually hole (really close to it however), I decided just to repair it.
I cleaned the rubber really well, then used a combo of CA glue gel and liquid, and filled in the cut. Then made a patch with a piece of brand new bike tire innertube, and patiently glued it on - waiting while pressing and massaging it to stick and dry.... seems pretty good.
It will be in an easily accessible location (attached to the tranny, not the wheel) so I can keep a very close eye on it to make sure it is holding up....
....in the meantime I will keep my eye open for an original boot for eventual replacement.
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