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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Stretching clutch cable. |
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Hi folks. I have a strange issue. I have what acts like a stretching clutch cable. At first I thought it was the classic loose tranny ground scenario, which part of it may have been. I cleaned and tightened the transmission to body ground and checked the Bowden tube and all appear normal. After about 15 minutes of driving, shifting the bus starts to act like my clutch is out of adjustment again. Any thoughts? I don't think it is the cross shaft, because after it cools down it seems to be in adjustment again. Is there another ground I am missing perhaps?
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cmonSTART
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 1915
Location: NH
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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So, does it feel like it stretches when it warms up, but goes back to normal when it cools down?
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mikewire
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 805
Location: San Antonio, TX
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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check the transmission ground strap. If it is a bad or corroded connection then the clutch cable carries the load and gets hot. Also check the last weld where the tube ends. If it is bad the tube can flex. If you have to weld it make sure whomever does it doesn't poke thru the tube to leave a spot the cable can chaff on.
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| cmonSTART wrote: |
| So, does it feel like it stretches when it warms up, but goes back to normal when it cools down? |
yes
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| mikewire wrote: |
| TomWesty wrote: |
| After about 15 minutes of driving, shifting the bus starts to act like my clutch is out of adjustment again. |
Can you expand on what you are experiencing?
Like hard to go into gear? Or...?
What's the condition of your shift bushings and coupler? |
Yes, on start up and early driving, shifting is pretty normal. Then it starts grinding into gear like the clutch isn’t fully disengaged.
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| check the transmission ground strap. If it is a bad or corroded connection then the clutch cable carries the load and gets hot. Also check the last weld where the tube ends. If it is bad the tube can flex. If you have to weld it make sure whomever does it doesn't poke thru the tube to leave a spot the cable can chaff on. |
Hi Steve. Transmission ground strap was the first thing I did. Cleaned and tightened. I’ll see if the cable is hot next time I drive it. Bowden tube looks good, but I will double check.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16878
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| TomWesty wrote: |
| Yes, on start up and early driving, shifting is pretty normal. Then it starts grinding into gear like the clutch isn’t fully disengaged. |
no idea what you have here. T1? T4?
either way, sounds to me like a failing pilot bearing.
i've had 2 T4 buses that shifted fine cold but couldn't get to shift after about 10-15 mins. after 1/2 hour, you couldn't shift at all
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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Does the pedal free play seem to change and then change back or is it just the difficulty in changing gears that changes?
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Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| TomWesty wrote: |
| Yes, on start up and early driving, shifting is pretty normal. Then it starts grinding into gear like the clutch isn’t fully disengaged. |
no idea what you have here. T1? T4?
either way, sounds to me like a failing pilot bearing.
i've had 2 T4 buses that shifted fine cold but couldn't get to shift after about 10-15 mins. after 1/2 hour, you couldn't shift at all |
Too lazy to put it in my sig line. T1 with OG tranny. 1971 Westy.
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch?
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
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cmonSTART
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 1915
Location: NH
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch? |
Same here - really sounds like a pilot bearing or some other issue. I have had clutch cables stretch because they're breaking as Aeromech said, but they never go back to normal when cooled down obviously.
Is your pedal freeplay changing?
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch? |
Thanks!
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| cmonSTART wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch? |
Same here - really sounds like a pilot bearing or some other issue. I have had clutch cables stretch because they're breaking as Aeromech said, but they never go back to normal when cooled down obviously.
Is your pedal freeplay changing? |
I’ll check freeplay. I need to do pilot bearing and all shift bushings/ coupler. Thank you!
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| check the transmission ground strap. If it is a bad or corroded connection then the clutch cable carries the load and gets hot. Also check the last weld where the tube ends. If it is bad the tube can flex. If you have to weld it make sure whomever does it doesn't poke thru the tube to leave a spot the cable can chaff on. |
Just run a band clamp around the torsion tube and the clutch tube and tighten it up well, no need to do any welding. One can even just use cordage if they are good with knots. |
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| check the transmission ground strap. If it is a bad or corroded connection then the clutch cable carries the load and gets hot. Also check the last weld where the tube ends. If it is bad the tube can flex. If you have to weld it make sure whomever does it doesn't poke thru the tube to leave a spot the cable can chaff on. |
Just run a band clamp around the torsion tube and the clutch tube and tighten it up well, no need to do any welding. One can even just use cordage if they are good with knots. |
Thanks!
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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if the ONLY reason you are worried about the cable is because the trans shifts hard, check the oil in it, and also consider a new pilot bearing.
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| if the ONLY reason you are worried about the cable is because the trans shifts hard, check the oil in it, and also consider a new pilot bearing. |
I drove it quite a bit today and I think I need to adjust the clutch cable once more, but more importantly I think it’s time for shift coupler and bushings. The cable didn’t seem to stretch any and I noticed if I went from neutral to first it would grind going in to first. If I went into second before shifting into first it would not grind. This was while being at a stop. This all started when I was jacking my bus up and down a lot and putting it on ramps etc. to do brake work. I think shifter stuff that was already old and decrepit just got even more decrepit due to the flexing.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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the syncho in 2nd is stopping the shaft from spinning. Then it goes into gear. It could be a bad pilot bearing or a warped clutch disc too. Use a tape measure to check free play like in the video at the link below I set up a couple years ago to assist someone else.
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/clutch_freeplay.AVI
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
the syncho in 2nd is stopping the shaft from spinning. Then it goes into gear. It could be a bad pilot bearing or a warped clutch disc too. Use a tape measure to check free play like in the video at the link below I set up a couple years ago to assist someone else.
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/clutch_freeplay.AVI |
I think I measured about an inch, but I’ll check it again.
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