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1973 bay Window ALH conversion
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

I did try to make an in-bay radiator work, and even cut away a rotated battery tray just like that.

But it still didn't work. Even after cutting a vent down low, it still didn't cool enough. Now I get jokes about having a battery door!
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arminyack
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
I did try to make an in-bay radiator work, and even cut away a rotated battery tray just like that.

But it still didn't work. Even after cutting a vent down low, it still didn't cool enough. Now I get jokes about having a battery door!


What did you wind up with for a radiator?

Im currently eyeing this as either a 2nd radiator underneath, or as a the only radiator..

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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

I went with a big aluminum triple pass radiator between the frame rails, with a scoop grabbing air and pushing it up. Had to weld up different hose connections.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

when the VW engineers confronted where to put the radiator on late water cooled buses and vanagons they could have put their radiators anywhere during production. Made any angle or compartment that wanted. They chose to put them out in front.

images from online

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markd89
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

Hey looking nice!

I used 2 A2W units in series. Using one was not enough.

Looking forward to the rest of your build Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

Progress a bit slow so far this week...looking into how to mount microswitches for the brake and clutch pedals (cruise control stuff). I've also got a tach to go in, as well as a GP light to put somewhere on the dash, mount my coolant temp gauge...and I need to acquire a Scangauge II to monitor IAT, among other things.

I hung the muffler, which is a factory unit from a BMW 2002 Turbo ive had in my garage for years.

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I'm alos thinking about the fuel return line into the gas tank. Currently, I'm using one of the 2 vent connections at the top of the tank to return to. I am concerned about static charge build up, and the possible need to run a pipe down to the bottom of the tank and return to that...I know this is a must with gasoline...but I am not sure about Diesel fuel?
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

Diesel's not real scary/explosive.

For the brake switch, I used a relay that was triggered by the brake lights to provide that signal to the computer. I don't know for sure what signal an ALH computer is looking for with the brake signal. In my AHU, it expects to see a ground when the brake is engaged, so I used a relay to make a connection to ground when the coil is energized.

For the clutch, the ECU expects to see the connection to ground break when the pedal is depressed. I used a normally open switch initially, but it got wonky, so I just connected the wire directly to ground...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

arminyack wrote:
Progress a bit slow so far this week...looking into how to mount microswitches for the brake and clutch pedals (cruise control stuff). I've also got a tach to go in, as well as a GP light to put somewhere on the dash, mount my coolant temp gauge...and I need to acquire a Scangauge II to monitor IAT, among other things.

I'm alos thinking about the fuel return line into the gas tank. Currently, I'm using one of the 2 vent connections at the top of the tank to return to. I am concerned about static charge build up, and the possible need to run a pipe down to the bottom of the tank and return to that...I know this is a must with gasoline...but I am not sure about Diesel fuel?


Fuel return line, interesting. My bus was FI so I was already setup for a return line.

Microswitch for brakes. My MC has two (redundant) switches on it. We used one of those for the brake switch. I think I used it to switch a relay which switches the signal the computer needs.

Clutch switch I used a microswitch which comes with a longer lever arm and bent it so that the bottom of the pedal would push it down. Sounds mickey mouse but it has held up pretty well.

I use a Scangauge II also. I also have an analog temp guage using an analog sender where the water comes out of the head.

On water... The coolant bottle has a two prongs that go into the water. I made a circuit which drives an LED and a really loud piezo if the water gets low. I was thinking I would burst a tube at some point and wanted to know immediately if that happened. Turned out that that part of the system has been completely solid.

P.S. Jealous of that AC compressor!! It's one of the things I regret not doing and now am not in a position to do so.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

markd89 wrote:
arminyack wrote:
Progress a bit slow so far this week...looking into how to mount microswitches for the brake and clutch pedals (cruise control stuff). I've also got a tach to go in, as well as a GP light to put somewhere on the dash, mount my coolant temp gauge...and I need to acquire a Scangauge II to monitor IAT, among other things.

I'm alos thinking about the fuel return line into the gas tank. Currently, I'm using one of the 2 vent connections at the top of the tank to return to. I am concerned about static charge build up, and the possible need to run a pipe down to the bottom of the tank and return to that...I know this is a must with gasoline...but I am not sure about Diesel fuel?


Fuel return line, interesting. My bus was FI so I was already setup for a return line.

Microswitch for brakes. My MC has two (redundant) switches on it. We used one of those for the brake switch. I think I used it to switch a relay which switches the signal the computer needs.

Clutch switch I used a microswitch which comes with a longer lever arm and bent it so that the bottom of the pedal would push it down. Sounds mickey mouse but it has held up pretty well.

I use a Scangauge II also. I also have an analog temp guage using an analog sender where the water comes out of the head.

On water... The coolant bottle has a two prongs that go into the water. I made a circuit which drives an LED and a really loud piezo if the water gets low. I was thinking I would burst a tube at some point and wanted to know immediately if that happened. Turned out that that part of the system has been completely solid.

P.S. Jealous of that AC compressor!! It's one of the things I regret not doing and now am not in a position to do so.


Good info..but I decided to just put permanently 12v on the clutch switch, and routed the brake switch to the brake light line coming ouit of the switch on the MC. Done!
For the coolant level circuitry...did you just straight up ground to one prong, and attach the buzzer to 12v on one end, and the the other prong to the other end? I haven't messed with it at all...so i dont know how much the resistance drops when coolant is in there

AC is phase 2 of this project. Im headed to the ICEAC kit sans/ compressor. Ill do that over the spring, and hopefully have an AC'ed bus for next summer. it gets damn hot out here in the inland empire
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

RE: Coolant circuitry. No, it's not that simple. It needed an integrated circuit. I did this all about 8 years ago, so forget details. Fortunately, I did keep some notes which may get you started.

LM1830 is a monolithic integrated circuit that can be used in liquid level indicator / control systems. Manufactured by National Semiconductors, the LM1830 can detect the presence or absence of polar fluids . Circuits based on this IC requires minimum number of external components and AC signal is passed through the sensing probe immersed in the fluid. Usage of AC signal for detection prevents electrolysis and this makes the probes long lasting. The IC is capable of driving a LED, high impedance tweeter or a low power relay at its output.

You may also find something already built for this purpose.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

markd89 wrote:
RE: Coolant circuitry. No, it's not that simple. It needed an integrated circuit. I did this all about 8 years ago, so forget details. Fortunately, I did keep some notes which may get you started.

LM1830 is a monolithic integrated circuit that can be used in liquid level indicator / control systems. Manufactured by National Semiconductors, the LM1830 can detect the presence or absence of polar fluids . Circuits based on this IC requires minimum number of external components and AC signal is passed through the sensing probe immersed in the fluid. Usage of AC signal for detection prevents electrolysis and this makes the probes long lasting. The IC is capable of driving a LED, high impedance tweeter or a low power relay at its output.

You may also find something already built for this purpose.


I think I found my animal right here..it uses an LM1801.

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*edit: this isnt it. This one beeps when liquid hits the sensor. The LM1803 one below is the one.

There is also this I found that looks interesting
https://citroen.tramontana.co.hu/en/electrics/windscreen-washer-fluid-level


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

There you go!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

and a LM1830 version


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

So I drove it yesterday for the first time...results!

Tranny hard to get into 1st and second. probably needs shift plate finagling.

Cooling systems needs to be revamped: its runs too hot. ~210 on a 75 degree day. I'm getting a bigger radiator (https://www.ebay.com/itm/353616178030) with 2X 10" SPAL pusher fans, and I'm putting it on the passenger side under the car. Going away from the engine bay mounted radiator....failed experiment.

Fuel leak. I had no leak before my trip to the gas station, and filled her up. After the tank was full, diesel started to pool up slowly from behind the radiator. it must be from the filler neck where it meets the tank. What a PITA.

EGT's: Low. staying around 800ish on my short freeway cruise.

Vibration: Minimal. I only really feel it starting to to kick it at around 3500 RPM, but I should have shifted already. If is 3500 in 4th...im going too fast!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

Gear shifting might be the clutch not disengaging enough. I had to shorten the arm on the trans housing so that it would get pulled a little more. If I had to do it over again, I would have gone hydraulic. There are sandrail kits for that.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

So how much did the whole project cost? I'd love to do this on my bus but something tells me it costs close to 5 figures.

Also, I think you need some nice OEM taillights to replace those yellowed ones! Might be the lighting but they look faded.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

P24p1 wrote:
So how much did the whole project cost? I'd love to do this on my bus but something tells me it costs close to 5 figures.

Also, I think you need some nice OEM taillights to replace those yellowed ones! Might be the lighting but they look faded.


5 figures, heavens no!! Id say I'm about 5 grand in, and that with a whole host of unexpected issues that cropped up. The biggest thing

1.) Acquiring a good, lowish miles used ALH motor that the seller doesn't think is made of gold
2.) Getting the transaxle rebuilt, regeared and strengthened
3.) labor...lots and lots of labor.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

So I've tentatively settled on this radiator:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143840523852


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It should fit right between the frame rails...and its almost double the face area of the the one ive got in there now, plus its a 3 row, and the current one is 2.

My mains concerns are:

The radiator cap. I don't want this thing opening...and if it so happens it does, I suppose I run a line from the nipple on the vent to the top of the VW tank?

All of the guide tubes for the stock heater control cables, ebrake cables, and clutch cable. There is no doubt that some of these will foul on the radiator + fans....I can cut away to the old heater crap..but the clutch and ebrake stuff must remain.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

I'm down in Pacific Beach if you want to check out how I did my radiator and scoop (belly-mounted) on my subaru swap.

I went with a double pass 2-row radiator with 1" core 31" W x 19" H from jegs. part number 555-52039. The price was 185 when I got it, gone up a bit since then. But fits well between the frame. Relocated the inlet/outlet to the side for smooth flow. Fans are on top as a pull setup. temps stay at 180 consistently.


edit: also to add that the two 11" fans I have on the radiator kind of straddle the clutch cable tube and shift rod, etc. so its pretty tucked up there. I did cut out the heater tube. I actually like your heater box setup, might do something similar since I haven't installed heat yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 bay Window ALH conversion Reply with quote

What did you do for gauges? I'm nearly finished swapping in an '05 BRM PD100 TDI into my '77 but am really stuck. I want gauges to fit into the factory locations, but run off the OBD2/Can-bus system. Not having much luck, so i'm scouring the internets right now
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