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Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy (SOLVED)
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy (SOLVED) Reply with quote

I replaced the fuel pump because the original pump made a "no idea how much longer it will hold out" noise (loud whine).

I put in a Bosch replacement and... No start. The pumps runs for maybe 5 seconds and stops. I assume it pressurized the fuel line. I expected a few tries to get to stumbling leading to a try that runs. No such luck.

The original pump showed no signs of polarity, just two spade lugs, no markings. The Bosch PP has two different diameter threaded posts, no markings. I took a guess and put the brown return wire on the small post, the feed wire on the big post. The size of inlet and outlet barbs let the pump go only one way.

It all looks right, but doesn't run right.

We're in an RV park in Welcome, NV (near Wells, NV, if that helps) with no ideas about what to do next. :(
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Did you try reversing the polarity?

How about cleaning out the old fuel pump, and putting it back in?
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

I've run out of daylight and lighting. Swapping wires is easy enough in the AM.

Unfortunately, the terminals on the two pumps isn't the same. No jumpers, and short on terminals.

Keep in mind we're pretty much in high desert, where resources are very limited. Betting on a probably failing pump is a very bad idea.
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Good news / bad news

I have a ScanGauge (from GW), and it shows the fuel pressure. According to the ScanGauge, the system's pressurized to 70 psi. Or, the pump's working. Too bad the motor isn't.

About the only loose end is where is the pressure being read? This is the GW EFI, BTW.
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kamzcab86
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

RBEmerson wrote:
I took a guess and put the brown return wire on the small post, the feed wire on the big post.


That's backwards. Switch the wires in the morning.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


https://www.vanagon.org/fuel-pump-replacement
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Yes, the Bosch pump has a large stud and a small stud fir + and - connections.
Sadly I don't recall which is which but I can look come daylight.

The pump is marked with very small + & - molded into the plastic, easy to miss seeing them.
They are so small I do this before installation......


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



You can pull a hose and cycle the key ti check for fuel volume actually being pumped.

If you have fuel being pumped the next check is for spark at the spark plugs.

Sorry but I know nothing about GoWesty's EFI.

If you verify spark, pull an injector rail and look fir fuel spray while cranking.

I had a new German Bosch pump run from Jersey to just West of Craters of the Moon and died.
Talk about irritating.


Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Good find Kam!

Large stud is Ground.

Counter intuitive for the large battery terminal is positive! ..... Go Figure.....

If you are patient you can uncrimp those terminals and reuse.

Dave
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Irony of ironies! We left Craters this morning, picked up the pump in Twin Falls, and then the fun began.

I'll swap the leads tomorrow. Dropping the pump is, at this point, rather challenging. If, as the ScanGauge says, the discharge side is up to 70 psi, I don't have a safe way vent it off. Short of spraying gas everywhere.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

I can swap the wires without messing with the crimped terminals. Zero chance of salvaging them but I think I can make the small lug fit.

Sure wish these things were marked clearly. Grrr...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

ARGHHH! Looking at the old pump, I found the markings. Talk about obscure... Grrr...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Your old pump was pumping?

Keep it as a spare.
On my 90 I hooked up a hose, hot wired it and pumped ATF. This will prevent rust and fuel deposits gumming up the inside.
Shut it down, drained it well, wrapped it securely and into the breakdown kit it went!

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

It was indeed pumping. And whining like a hydraulic pump on steroids.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

No clue if your old pump will run backwards if you reverse its polarity. If so you could maybe blow it out by hooking it up backwards and giving it a source of fuel to suck from.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

You can crack a 70 psi fuel line anywhere to relieve pressure. It won’t blow more than about 5-10 mL under pressure, catch thst with a rag or paper towel.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

if you were doing a deadhead pump test, it can show 70 psi (really should be higher deadhead) but have very low volume, and this may indeed be the case if the pump is wired backwards.

if this was attached to the test port Tee in the engine bay, something is wrong... too high.

let us know! if it was wired backwards, good to have that data point fuel pressure and experience.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Being wired backwards I doubt that 70 psi scan gauge read is accurate.

My old pump could build 30 psi of air pressure......

I think the rewire will put him on the road quickly!

IMHO ..... better to have a noisy known working pump under the bench than no pump at all when your new Bosch dies ......

Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

I'll keep the old pump, of course. The notion of doing pump surgery on the side of US 93 lacks a degree of appeal.

Anyway, breakfast, and then back to work.

(We're on PDT, FWIW)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

RBEmerson wrote:
Good news / bad news

I have a ScanGauge (from GW), and it shows the fuel pressure. According to the ScanGauge, the system's pressurized to 70 psi. Or, the pump's working. Too bad the motor isn't.

About the only loose end is where is the pressure being read? This is the GW EFI, BTW.


As far as I know there is no fuel pressure sensor, so the ScanGauge can't display fuel pressure. Did you install a fuel pressure sensor with the GW EFI? I didn't install a fuel pressure sensor in mine and do not know of any reference to this possibility, nor any wires to attach to a fuel pressure sensor.
Fuel pressure sensor is not in the GW parts list, nor in their wiring diagram.

Also, fuel pressure shouldn't be anywhere near 70psi. More like high 30s psi.

I don't know how, but I'm questioning the idea that your ScanGauge is displaying fuel pressure. You apparently have "70 something", but I can't guess what.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

Problem resolved. The Bosch pump works as expected, and doesn't sing.

The final problem was reversed wiring. Needing a magnifying glass to read the markings? FEH!

Great thanks, folk!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy Reply with quote

SyncroHead wrote:
I don't know how, but I'm questioning the idea that your ScanGauge is displaying fuel pressure. You apparently have "70 something", but I can't guess what.



its likely just the numerical value for "not available" or whatever the max possible value is for that signal



glad that was an easy fix!
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