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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:38 pm Post subject: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy (SOLVED) |
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I replaced the fuel pump because the original pump made a "no idea how much longer it will hold out" noise (loud whine).
I put in a Bosch replacement and... No start. The pumps runs for maybe 5 seconds and stops. I assume it pressurized the fuel line. I expected a few tries to get to stumbling leading to a try that runs. No such luck.
The original pump showed no signs of polarity, just two spade lugs, no markings. The Bosch PP has two different diameter threaded posts, no markings. I took a guess and put the brown return wire on the small post, the feed wire on the big post. The size of inlet and outlet barbs let the pump go only one way.
It all looks right, but doesn't run right.
We're in an RV park in Welcome, NV (near Wells, NV, if that helps) with no ideas about what to do next. :( _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Mikesarge Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2008 Posts: 222 Location: PNW
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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Did you try reversing the polarity?
How about cleaning out the old fuel pump, and putting it back in? _________________ 1986 Syncro westfauxlia EJ22
1980 911 SC 3.1 |
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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I've run out of daylight and lighting. Swapping wires is easy enough in the AM.
Unfortunately, the terminals on the two pumps isn't the same. No jumpers, and short on terminals.
Keep in mind we're pretty much in high desert, where resources are very limited. Betting on a probably failing pump is a very bad idea. _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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Good news / bad news
I have a ScanGauge (from GW), and it shows the fuel pressure. According to the ScanGauge, the system's pressurized to 70 psi. Or, the pump's working. Too bad the motor isn't.
About the only loose end is where is the pressure being read? This is the GW EFI, BTW. _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7924 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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RBEmerson wrote: |
I took a guess and put the brown return wire on the small post, the feed wire on the big post. |
That's backwards. Switch the wires in the morning.
https://www.vanagon.org/fuel-pump-replacement _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32630 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32630 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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Irony of ironies! We left Craters this morning, picked up the pump in Twin Falls, and then the fun began.
I'll swap the leads tomorrow. Dropping the pump is, at this point, rather challenging. If, as the ScanGauge says, the discharge side is up to 70 psi, I don't have a safe way vent it off. Short of spraying gas everywhere. _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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I can swap the wires without messing with the crimped terminals. Zero chance of salvaging them but I think I can make the small lug fit.
Sure wish these things were marked clearly. Grrr... _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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ARGHHH! Looking at the old pump, I found the markings. Talk about obscure... Grrr... _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32630 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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It was indeed pumping. And whining like a hydraulic pump on steroids. _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:10 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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No clue if your old pump will run backwards if you reverse its polarity. If so you could maybe blow it out by hooking it up backwards and giving it a source of fuel to suck from. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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You can crack a 70 psi fuel line anywhere to relieve pressure. It won’t blow more than about 5-10 mL under pressure, catch thst with a rag or paper towel. _________________ .ssS! |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4799 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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if you were doing a deadhead pump test, it can show 70 psi (really should be higher deadhead) but have very low volume, and this may indeed be the case if the pump is wired backwards.
if this was attached to the test port Tee in the engine bay, something is wrong... too high.
let us know! if it was wired backwards, good to have that data point fuel pressure and experience. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32630 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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I'll keep the old pump, of course. The notion of doing pump surgery on the side of US 93 lacks a degree of appeal.
Anyway, breakfast, and then back to work.
(We're on PDT, FWIW) _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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SyncroHead Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005 Posts: 1145 Location: Northern Nevada
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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RBEmerson wrote: |
Good news / bad news
I have a ScanGauge (from GW), and it shows the fuel pressure. According to the ScanGauge, the system's pressurized to 70 psi. Or, the pump's working. Too bad the motor isn't.
About the only loose end is where is the pressure being read? This is the GW EFI, BTW. |
As far as I know there is no fuel pressure sensor, so the ScanGauge can't display fuel pressure. Did you install a fuel pressure sensor with the GW EFI? I didn't install a fuel pressure sensor in mine and do not know of any reference to this possibility, nor any wires to attach to a fuel pressure sensor.
Fuel pressure sensor is not in the GW parts list, nor in their wiring diagram.
Also, fuel pressure shouldn't be anywhere near 70psi. More like high 30s psi.
I don't know how, but I'm questioning the idea that your ScanGauge is displaying fuel pressure. You apparently have "70 something", but I can't guess what.
Jim Davis _________________ "A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
sphet wrote: |
I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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RBEmerson Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2011 Posts: 2108 Location: SE PA
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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Problem resolved. The Bosch pump works as expected, and doesn't sing.
The final problem was reversed wiring. Needing a magnifying glass to read the markings? FEH!
Great thanks, folk! _________________ Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change. |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Stuck in Welcome NV - No start - 90 Westy |
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SyncroHead wrote: |
I don't know how, but I'm questioning the idea that your ScanGauge is displaying fuel pressure. You apparently have "70 something", but I can't guess what.
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its likely just the numerical value for "not available" or whatever the max possible value is for that signal
glad that was an easy fix! _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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