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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: 1988 Tin Top |
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Hello!!
I'm Al and nickname is Al Stew. First van/project for me and it is a 88' vanagon gl wolfsburg.
Background: It was my dads DD for mexico. He broke down on a sketchy road on his way home (road known for robbery's). Instead of pulling over he just kept trucking and made it to his destination right as the engine finally seized.
He had the van towed to a mechanic in TJ for repair. The guy strung my father along for 6 months before finally poorly swapping in a diesel engine from the owners syncro. I believe he fed lies collecting parts to build a solid engine for his own van and swapping in his old diesel.
The van is kind of rough and the diesel swap is horrible because he tons of electrical was cut out and things are wrong and leaking. But I have tons of determination and I started auto class at my local college.
Here are some pics! And I need some help identifying my belt situation on the power steering/water/alternator. There is an extra pulley welded to the alternator and the belts are not in the stock configuration. The engine runs decent considering everything. But I just want to fix this mess so I can start stripping the entire thing so I can send it to paint and start fresh!
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Figuring things out... more pics!!
You can see the second pulley welded and kind of see the rerouted belts. Any advice of how to make it back to stock is greatly appreciated!
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2312 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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You’e saying someone put a 1.6NA diesel in an ’88? That’s crazy! What transmission? _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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From the looks of that old style vacuum pump, that might even be a 1.5D _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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I see the PS pump, reservoir. It looks like the pulley was modified to drive the PS pump. edit: it may be that they used the existing pulley to drive the PS pump and the added belt drives the coolant pump. If you'll be driving the van with that engine, be careful about pulley sizes driving the coolant pump. I may be totally wrong but looking at one image, it almost looks like that coolant pump will be driven too slow. end edit.
Good on you for saving a Wolfsburg but be wary and realistic of body work required. It looks like the metal under some of the window seals will be in poor shape. If so, that will bring body work costs up unless you have the skills.
When you say "make it back to stock". I assume you want to install the OEM engine etc. ? If so, you're going to get familiar with reading Bentley manual wiring diagrams! To that end, the gallery here may have info on identifying wires that have been cut. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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TheArmand Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2016 Posts: 92 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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I would sell it as is and buy something not molested. Screw the sentimental value, a tin top with that much rust and engine work is going to cost you much, much more in money and ESPECIALLY you're precious time than buying the equivalent car for less than 10k with a rebuilt 2.1. Maybe if it was a Westy. You're riding a slippery slope. Does it even have the stock tranny? |
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Gnarlodious Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013 Posts: 2312 Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Knock it off with the negativity! The guy is in auto class and this is a great project he will learn from and save a Vanagon to boot!
Be helpful people! _________________ Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Looks like a perfectly restorable van, but it can be maddening to go back and deal with previous hacks. Since you already have the fifty degree install bits, rather than find another WBX, I'd swap in a diesel or gas inline VAG engine. The school auto shop should afford you access to all the facilities required to address the issue areas needing attention. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Jeffrey Lee Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2014 Posts: 1488 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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As long as we're talking about belts, and since no one else has mentioned it, you should probably replace the timing belt too.
Considering that you don't know much about the engine's background, and what little you do know isn't very good (sketchy mechanic), the timing belt should be replaced. These VW diesels are 'interference engines', meaning that if the belt slips or breaks, your pistons can hit your valves and do all sorts of upper-end damage. Replacing the timing belt is a bit of a project, esp. for a newbie, but it's crucial if you intend to continue driving this engine.
It's a lot to read but here's a pretty definitive thread outlining a newbie's tackling of the task, with lots of helpful advice from a few of the Samba's resident diesel experts:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640611
Course, if your plan is revert the van to its original waterboxer engine soon, don't spend much time on the diesel ... _________________ Camp Westfalia
Camping Tips • Newsletter • Cool Campervan Apparel
www.CampWestfalia.com |
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vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3425 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Looks like a perfectly restorable van, but it can be maddening to go back and deal with previous hacks. Since you already have the fifty degree install bits, rather than find another WBX, I'd swap in a diesel or gas inline VAG engine. The school auto shop should afford you access to all the facilities required to address the issue areas needing attention. |
I'd agree, but being in Cali, is that going to limit him the original 2.1 WBX'er, since an 88 never had a diesel (in the US)? _________________ John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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That is a very early model vacuum pump with a separate oil feed line to it. That was fitted to 1.5l non-turbo engines. Some of the 1.6 engines got a diaphragm style vac pump also, but it did not have the separate oil feed line.
If that is a 1.5l non-turbo engine pushing an 88 vanagon then wiring isn't really a major issue at this point in time. Step one would be to source another engine, preferably either turbo-charged or 1.9l or both. The stock 1.6 non-turbo is dangerously slow when mated to the very short gearing of the 4-speed diesel trans. Mating a 1.5l to a taller WBX trans is a disaster.
Timing belt and accessory belts would probably sort themselves out with the swap to a more powerful engine.
Regardless, as mentioned, if you want the existing engine to survive for any period of time, then the timing belt should be swapped for new along with the tensioner. It is a critical procedure that must be done exactly right or the engine can self-destruct.
If you keep the current engine, then you should also fit a timing belt cover. Having the timing belt exposed like it is, any small piece of debris (e.g. rock, or bolt vibrated loose, etc...) entering the belt can cause it to break and destroy the engine. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Ok then, a diesel swap is easier to obtain approval for than a gas swap without an executive order, so I recommend a 1.6td, AAZ or 1Z/AHU _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Gnarlodious wrote: |
... The guy is in auto class and this is a great project he will learn from and save a Vanagon to boot!
Be helpful people!
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Agreed.
My guess is that he's a younger person who's totally enthused about this project. Heck. At 45, i was enthused about my first Vanagon! I am supportive of his project but paying someone to fix the rust would likely be costly and that was my main caution. Hopefully though, the auto shop class facilities has a body shop or some tools and body work instructors.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Wow! Thank you everyone for all the information and the advice!! Greatly appreciated...
I understand the van is rough, but I am taking the auto classes after my day job and I love it. I am enrolled with Saddleback College in So Cal and Casey Moir is my teacher. He has a pretty impressive resume.
After reading some comments I might have a 1.5 diesel which I didn't even know about. It has 4 speed manual that is super sloppy with really steep gearing. The van has a top speed of 50 mph with a tail wind. So I am going to be lots of reading and talking to as many people as I can so I can stay CARB compliant.
If anyone can post some links to engine swap threads, CARB threads, anything would be helpful because I am a little lost on where to start. Also I am thinking of stripping the van pulling the windows and getting the body media blasted. Is there anywhere in South Orange County that performs this?
Thanks,
Alex |
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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I forgot to add the belts are on the water/steering/alternator are not the correct length and one of the squeals pretty bad. I have to tighten the belts.
Can anyone post a link of the 1.5 belt information? Thanks!
I just want the van reliable to drive a few miles here and there so I don't have to tow it to my auto class or a body shop. |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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a good point has been brought up about getting the correct engine, for califonia smog reasons. you may not be able to register it legally with the current engine, you NEED to check on the rules BEFORE any more money is spent on it. it could be the only legal way to register this van in california is to make it a stock 2.1 liter with all smog equipement, or maybe do a smog legal subaru conversion. there might be some exception for inter family tranfers from a foriegn nation, but you need to get that sorted out ASAP. check with your local smog referee. the smog laws can be a royal pain in the butt, lots of hoops to jump thru, so get it squred away right away, as the rules will determine what you NEED to do.
good luck _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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I doubt guidance wrt stock 1.5 belt arrangements are going to be of much assistance, as I'm sure none of the stock Mk1/B1 vehicles with those engines were set up with a belt configuration similar to the custom setup on your hacked van. You may need to find the size of the current belts, and then go to Napa and source some that are slightly smaller, if the range of adjustment is already maxed. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
I doubt guidance wrt stock 1.5 belt arrangements are going to be of much assistance, as I'm sure none of the stock Mk1/B1 vehicles with those engines were set up with a belt configuration similar to the custom setup on your hacked van. You may need to find the size of the current belts, and then go to Napa and source some that are slightly smaller, if the range of adjustment is already maxed. |
Awesome, thanks for the help! |
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ALstew Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2016 Posts: 176 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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Here is a better pic of the engine. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9895 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Intro and newby 1988 body with diesel swap |
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The fuel filter is hooked up backwards.
The bottom side of the engine block should have large 1.6 cast into it if it is a 1.6.
Don't worry about the naysayers.
Good luck with your project.
Mark |
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