Help with engine build

[GreenZoomBug]

I bought a 67 Baja a few weeks back. 1500 cc dual port heads with a weber 2 barrel. Some of the pushrod tubes were damaged so l took it to a local shop hoping to just replace the tubes. As things go, the pushrods were damaged so l told them to pull the heads so l could see what l had. Strange things go on in FrankenBugs. First off there was a 2 1/2" × 5/16" bolt stuck in the intake. No damage, but a shiny spot where it had been bouncing around. The cylinders were not in great shape, one cylinder head has a crack on the edge where it bolts to the block. So, I'm having the engine rebuilt, There are so many combinations that I'm hoping for some advice. I would like to go bigger with lots of touque I'm not interested in a high reving engine and want to keep the cylinder heads cool. I hope to keep my stock crank with just a clean up and maybe balance everything. I would like to go with a new set of factory cylinder heads. So what are your suggestions?

[Paul Jr]

That bug looks familiar. Mind if I ask where it came from, someone close by was selling one just recently. They tried to tell me it was recently rebuilt but it was obvious it would need a rebuild and the asking price was way high so I passed on it.

[Cusser]

You have an "H" case engine (originally 1500cc, likely has been built up to 1600cc). "H" cases are not generally used for high performance engines due to the case alloy and smaller oil passages. You have a dual port engine (can see the manifold seal) so I suggest just getting new dual port heads and keeping 1600cc; a lighter Baja bug will perform well.

Make sure the engine case gets case savers in the rebuild, and your choice whether to get machined for larger cylinders, but I'd stay with 69mm crankshaft. I do suggest a combination oil pump/filter unit on the rebuild though.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[clonebug]

Check carefully behind the flywheel at the #3 cylinder side for hairline cracks.
They are known to be weak there and I had my H case start leaking oil there.

When I pulled the engine to replace what I thought was a leaking flywheel seal I found the crack had progressed to within a 1/2 inch of the lower oil gallery plug.
Once it got there it would have pushed the plug out with ugly results.
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[Shane Tuttle]

I'm no expert VW engine builder. But I made a LOT of phone calls to reputable ones before I settled on my own build. I had similar parameters as yours. Two major differences that I hope you reconsider are your crank and heads. Another item we need to know is what your budget is. That will determine everything.

If you're wanting lots of torque but don't want a high revving engine, my personal take is a 2110cc (82mm stroke x 90.5mm bore) is about as big you can go and largely have the same life as stock....IF you use quality parts. If you want to minimize clearance work, a 74mm crank will assure reliability along with having adequate torque. Staying with a 90.5mm bore, that will put you at a 2007cc. You can call Jose at DPR and ship your crank out to him. He uses original German cranks and works wonders on them. Steve Tims Stage I heads offer great flow and focuses on maximizing cooling. I went with a new aluminum Super Case. You can use a new magnesium, too. Between those two cases are a whole 'nuther can of worms. Either way, use a new case.

I'm not saying you have to build a stroker and I'm not saying you won't get more power by staying with a 69mm crank. Going up to a 1776/1835/1914 will certainly be an improvement. However, in my experience, the low end torque just isn't there compared to stroking. Generally speaking, you'll be generating higher RPM to achieve the type of power you're asking.

On a side note: You CAN go to a 2180cc (82mm stroke x 82mm bore). AA piston/cylinder set has a "Thick Wall" option. 82mm cylinders used to be notorious for not lasting as long as 90.5mm. In recent years, many have had good results on longevity using the Thick Wall. Personally, I wanted to stick to tried and true. That, and there has to be a point of diminishing return. I didn't see measureable increase in power to justify making any larger cut in the heads for the Thick Walls. If I were to do that, then I might as well go up to 94mm. (See what I mean by needing to draw a line in the sand?).

[GreenZoomBug]

I just dropped into the shop and l don't have to worry about the 1500 H anymore. The crank end play sealed the deal. There is a local vw builder that I'm going to contact on Monday to see what he has or can do.

[GreenZoomBug]

What would be the optimum sized engine for a single weber 2 barrel ? And what would be the best engine series to look for ?

[Glenn]

[GreenZoomBug]

I don't like dual carbs on VW's l had one years ago and they didn't work well off road for me. Seemed like one or the other would act up when the Bug was on a steep side angle. Replaced with a single Weber and never looked back

[dogmeat]

.. a single Webber what. and what size engine, etc

[Paul Jr]

I am running duals on my off road buggy and have absolutely no issues with hills or angles at all. I do hear others that are running singles say to me things like I don’t know how you make them work? They seem to have had issue with keeping them in sync, and some stalling but following the advice of my Unckle I use the upgrade parts that you would find in a set of MX carbs from CB and never seem to have any issues at all.

[hulbyw]

"If you want to minimize clearance work, a 74mm crank will assure reliability along with having adequate torque. Staying with a 90.5mm bore, that will put you at a 2007cc. "

Not quite. 74 x 90.5 = 1904cc

[modok]

2007-2110 IMO

[Lingwendil]

74x90.5 1904cc
74x92 1967cc
74x94 2054cc
76x90.5 1955cc
76x92 2021cc
78x90.5 2007cc
All reasonably common combinations.

Personally I really like the idea of the 1904, 1967, or 2007cc engine as my next bigger build. If I was shooting for reliability and wasn't planning to beat on it I would lean towards the 74 stroke and 90.5 or 92 bore size. Add a set of decent mild dual carbs and it should do great.

Avoid a single IDF. Duals are just as reliable if you set them up correctly from the beginning. Steep inclines will not cause issues if the floats are set correctly.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[evanfrucht]

I would give duals a second chance. Sounds you had bad luck one time many years ago and they were simply not setup right and/or not matched to that particular engine.

For what you seem to want to end up with, they are the better choice perfomance wise... Hands down, not even a comparison.

I would go 2007-2276 or bigger. I like the neck snapping low end torque in addition to that excessive HP at 6000k

A 2180 is the basically the same stroke to bore ratio as stock. Something to think about that is often overlooked... with a lightened flywheel and all the goodies it revs up extremely quickly and freely. The torque curve feels very broad. It's very hard to lug it but also the power seems to never end.

Budget is a large factor.
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )

[modok]

He just asked what engine size is best for single carb, I guess that's a controversial question

Wants to "daily drive" a baha with oversize tires......

Will have to fix the gearing, figure out how to keep the carburetor(s) getting too cold in cold weather, build aircleaners adequate to be in open and get wet.
Deal with "heater box/exhaust system" quandary

Going with dual VS single carbs has no clear advantage in this case IMO
He will have to learn a lot anyway so it does not matter which path is chosen.

Everybody likes one kind of carburetor setup or another.... is because they are not willing to learn and do the work needed to make the other kind work.

Duals and singles. Same thing.

[GreenZoomBug]

Thanks Guy's, Lot's to think about. What should be a average cost for a 1900/2000 ish build cost and what block to look for ? Are all the 1600 mostly the same ?

[modok]

All engine cases are interchangeable, actually......but
In the 70's there were two significant improvements, the "dual relief" oil system, and 8mm head studs that go in steel inserts.
Late 70's German cases were the best.

Most guys if they will sink a lot of money and work into it, they decide they HAVE to get a good case with these features.
But for mild engines.....it more important that the case be in good condition and doesn't really matter which type it is.

I collected a lot of used and new HP vw stuff over the course of 15 years, I don't really know what it would cost today, nor do I want to know But, probably 2-4k to put together a decent engine. That's the way it should be, but, hobbies often aren't, um, "efficient"

[evanfrucht]

Modok is lucky he's been collecting parts for years

But he is right in that it depends a lot on what you start with or have access to, and also what work you are able to do yourself.

For me, I'm not a machinist (like Modok and others) so I have to outsource that work. But essentially everything else I ussualy have the desire, motivation, skill, tools, and time to do myself. That's how it I like it so I don't mind the labor or learning something new and practicing. I'm a firm believer in "if you want it done right, do it yourself" or find someone you trust a lot. For some people they have "better things" they'd rather do in their free time instead, so they pay someone else to do their dirty work and just want to enjoy driving the car. Nothing wrong with either way, but the second option is more costly and sometimes a gamble that ends in disaster... Be wary.

If you are savvy with the swap meets and various online classifieds, depending on where you are, that can also help bring cost down a lot.

Basically it's a hard question to answer matter of factly, but your looking at around 4k-7k if you have absolutely nothing to start with except tools and your bare hands, and depending on how fancy you want it and how much work you want other people to do. For instance, rebuilding $250 swap meet carbs yourself vs. paying $1200 for a genuine ready to go rebuilt pair vs. taking the gamble on cheap ebay knockoffs. The same engine to have built outright would be 8-12k complete. Basically add atleast 3k to the cost of parts and that will be roughly what it will cost you to have it built by a good shop. These shops that you see offer complete turnkey 2276 for 5-6k are using the cheapest parts possible and likely slapping it together. Avoid those.
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder )

[GreenZoomBug]

The guy that l was hoping to get some help from has moved and far to busy to help with my rebuild. There is one guy l found that has l believe a couple single port 1600's but he wants $1000 each. Both are complete and l think he said they were both running when taken out. But it seems like a $1000 bet if they are good. I'm not sure what to do now