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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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$1,000 for a stock, used, and currently non-running single port?
No way. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1417 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
$1,000 for a stock, used, and currently non-running single port?
No way. |
X2!! |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1417 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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We used to joke that the H cases were made of cottage cheese... fine for stock but I wouldn't go high po on one |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Bring or send your current case to reputable machinist or buy another dual port core engine or case. As other have said, you can build a bigger engine on a H case as long as it is in good condition. A case from 1971 onwards would be a slightly better choice for a moderate performance build, if you want to go for that.
Look for one where they guy is not sure weather it runs or it is under $300 complete with all or most german tin, pulleys, etc. If the tin has been changed to aftermarket all over and/or the motor looks too messed with, I'd pass. If it's just a bare case, maybe pay $200 tops, unless you think it's too good to pass up. If it's a total basketcase and you want to pull it apart and see what's good on it... maybe it's worth $150. Or at least it might be to me _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Glenn wrote: |
GreenZoomBug wrote: |
What would be the optimum sized engine for a single weber 2 barrel ? |
Please don't.
I have a customer with a locked up engine and a single IDF and i'm trying to talk him into going dual carbs. |
Honestly if you go single, Well it depends on if you go single port heads or upgrade. I am sure the case could be welded by someone that knows how. But going to a dual port engine and dual carbs would be the best performance maybe some kind of stock fuel Injection would work too on that what with it being a baja and all it's air intake could be more ideally located. Or maybe some kind of turbo.
I like the Zenith Carbs as single's. Single Port Double Barrel Intake Manifold Price: $50
Link
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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GreenZoomBug Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2021 Posts: 45 Location: Over the Hill
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Seems like a total lack of engines around here, everyone is building engines now l hear. Considering machining costs and lack of cores I'm thinking l may as well just buy a new case and go all new. I think the new cases are already machined for big pistons right ? One of my dual port heads has a crack near the bolt hole. Would welding be a option ? Are all factory dual port heads the same? I don't want to get side tracked, but what would be the cfm of all these Weber carbs ? How about a Holley 2 barrel that come on 6 pack setups. Center carb Is 500 cfm and the others are 350 cfm. I'm thinking that would be a awesome setup for a Big Bore Torque Monster.
I just found this
1970 VW beetle 1600 singleport engine, clean, runs good, 12volt generator charges, new voltage regulator. come see it run $1300
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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You CAN convert between CFM ratings and venturi size, but i don't think it's going to really help anything.
CFM ratings are most useful when the whole carburetor is feeding 4-8 cylinders, or feeding a turbo or a supercharger. Relatively constant flow.
These IDF/IDA/DRLA carbs we are fond of here, are designed for one barrel feeding only one or two cylinders. And carbs of this type are usually rated by venturi size.
And one thing that 40 years of history has tended to show, most of the time, is that they work best when used as intended.
Making carburetor do things it isn't designed to do, is maybe possible, but your doing it the hard way. |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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That 1970 single port is not dual relief. It's very similar to the H case you already have. Not worth it IMO unless you maybe don't want to build an engine now after all and instead just throw that in for the time being. In that case I'd make sure it not only runs, but runs well... check end play, compression, etc. I'd try to talk the guy down to around $800 too. That's probabaly the most I'd pay unless I really wanted it for some reason. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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GreenZoomBug wrote: |
One of my dual port heads has a crack near the bolt hole. Would welding be a option ? Are all factory dual port heads the same? I don't want to get side tracked, but what would be the cfm of all these Weber carbs ? How about a Holley 2 barrel that come on 6 pack setups. Center carb Is 500 cfm and the others are 350 cfm. I'm thinking that would be a awesome setup for a Big Bore Torque Monster. |
I saw a carb CFM Chart Somewhere here on the Samba but like "modok" is saying you can match a carb to the engine using venturi specifications. Center Mount is best done with a individual runner intake manifold and a 1600 needs a small 30mm or not much bigger dia intake runner. There are some small individual runner ones available that can fit the Zenith NDIX 32 Carb and possibly the Holley 2 barrel although I would do the Zenith, either way throttle linkage is not an easy thing. With a single dual barrel carburetor on a single runner intake manifold the CFM is roughly Doubled and Roughly Quadrupled with a Plenum intake manifold. Avoid a crossover Carb base.
"Are all factory dual port heads the same?" Some are. Generally if your buying new heads the cheap but pretty good heads are the Chinese 500's which may require being cut for 53cc's over their 60cc chambers that are correct for larger displacements ie.. (92mm bore or 94mm bore)
Yes cylinder head stud holes. etc can be welded by someone that has the equipment. The things to check on used. cylinder heads are, valve guide ware, sparkplug holes for unwanted cracks or incerts, Brittle or broken studs and signs of overheating ie usually cracks. Do you have a Doghouse fan shroud? _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Shane Tuttle Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2011 Posts: 172 Location: Arlee, Montana
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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hulbyw wrote: |
"If you want to minimize clearance work, a 74mm crank will assure reliability along with having adequate torque. Staying with a 90.5mm bore, that will put you at a 2007cc. "
Not quite. 74 x 90.5 = 1904cc |
You're right. Thanks for the correction. I had a brain fart.
GreenZoomBug, I'm honestly at a loss, here. Please don't take my comments the wrong way. We're all trying to provide sound advice.
One minute, you want to reuse some of your existing parts. Yet, you want a lot of torque without having to go high RPM. You want to start with a new case (good idea), but keep bringing up used 1600 engines. You're not going to get a whole lot of torque while trying to stay with a used 1600 and demanding to stay with a single carb setup without a LOT of work and more headache than it's worth.
The bottom line is we can go over the river and through the woods all day long. But we're not going to be able to get you to grandma's house without some form of general acceptance of direction. I would peruse through popular vendor sites such as Car Craft Store, CB Performance, etc. They have upfront pricing along with options to answer some of your questons (i.e. if a case comes Bored/Clearanced, already).
Your budget is what's going to drive your options. A new case, crank, heads, flywheel, P&C set, can push you into $3-4k without breaking a sweat on a PROPER build. That's only the beginning of your shopping list for a complete longblock. Are you willing to spend the time building the engine properly, yourself? That's another big question. If so, continue conversation. If you're not willing to build it, yourself, I HIGHLY recommend making phone calls to reputable builders. Pick ONE you trust, and let him/her make the decisions on what size/parts to build it.
I'm not trying to discourage you to ask questions. Believe me, I finally made decisions on what I'm building and accepted the cost of the parts as well as time spent on making sure I do it right. It took months of reading and several phone calls to vendors and builders. Hell, I started a thread a while back thinking I was convinced on what I was going to use for my build. Fast forward to now and my current inventory is vastly different. I understand you're trying to find all the answers so that doesn't happen to you. That's part of the VW life, though.
So:
1. What's your budget? Are you willing to spend more than you initially think? Trust me. It WILL go over your budget.
2. Are you willing to invest time in researching and buying tools to build it, yourself? If not, call a reputable builder and have it built. |
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GreenZoomBug Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2021 Posts: 45 Location: Over the Hill
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Thanks for all your replies. I know I've been been all over the place thinking about a used engine or new or used and new parts, so many options and my mind isn't made up yet. My budget is how ever deep l want to drain my bank acct. l can afford it but I'm Frugal or Cheap If l could find a good used block l would just do the bottom end and drop a big bore kit on it with a new cam and oil pump and what ever else was in good shape. So, l might build a new engine or l might use a good used one. It's not going to get pounded on, l just want power when when l want it. I do want to use 90.5 pistons and the rest is still open. For now I'm staying with the single carb to see how it works, things can change. I really do appreciate all the advice you guy's pass on. There is alot of knowledgeable people around here. |
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vdubrookie Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2017 Posts: 306 Location: Battle Creek,Mi
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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Clonebug, I have an AH038590 case and I am chasing a similar oil leak. I pulled the engine & took it to my VW parts vendor for rear seal replacement just as you said but it didn't really seam to help the oil leak much. I've double checked the oil cooler seals for leaking & came up empty. I get oil out the small opening in the bottom where the engine & trans axle mate. I know it's coming from inside that cavity because I've laid under the buggy & ran it to see where the oil is coming from. It even seems to leak without running the engine because at times I will see fresh oil on the floor when the engine hasn't been run which is very puzzling to me. Do you think I could possibly have a crack it the location you are describing? I've also replaced the input shaft seal on transaxle just to eliminate that possibility. |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9603 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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Quote: |
That 1970 single port is not dual relief. It's very similar to the H case you already have. |
Actually, it could already be a dual-relief case. The first model year of those for Type 1 was 1970 (>Aug '69 build), with the case letters starting with B6. That case still had the 10 mm cylinder head studs and no case saver inserts. |
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vdubrookie Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2017 Posts: 306 Location: Battle Creek,Mi
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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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It is definitely a dual relief case & it has 8mm case savers so back to my original question. Based on previous info how likely is it that I have the cracked case issue you spoke of |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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johnnyvw164 Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2020 Posts: 570 Location: South of Raleigh
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Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Help with engine build |
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The problem with any "used" engine is you have no idea what condition it's really in. So you need to treat it as a "core" as far as the price goes. You may get lucky, or you may end up buying the new parts anyway, in which case you wasted a lot of time and money. Last year I bought a used motor that hadn't run in probably 10 years. Paid $200 for it, and bought it just to get the OEM dog-house shroud and tin. The guy said it was from a baja bug he bought that was pretty well thrashed. Turns out both the case AND the heads are good. But I would have not known that for sure until I disassembled it. |
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