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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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 Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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Alright so I'm test fitting my headliner and could really use some pointers from you guys that have done this before. I did read through all the headliner threads I could find, but nothing I could find addressed the problems I'm having.
I'm only test fitting right now - no glue yet - because I didn't realize the TMI headliners come with perforated vinyl for the A and C pillars. So I had to order some extra bulk smooth vinyl, which is correct for my car.
So while I'm waiting for the smooth vinyl to arrive I thought I'd give the headliner a test fit. And goddam I see why so many of the threads I read, people said they just paid someone to do this!
I'm getting pretty good tension in the majority of the central area. Two questions:
1. I'm getting wrinkles that I can't stretch out where the bows meet the roof. Do I need to cut away more of the sleeve that the bows are in?
2. What the hell do I do in the corners? The more I stretch outward in all 4 directions to get rid of wrinkles, the more material I have piling up in the corners. If I was sewing, I'd make a dart, but I know I can't do that. What's the solution?
Massive thanks in advance!
I really want to know what I'm doing here before I commit to putting adhesive on the car!
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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You have to make relief cuts on the corners. Very small ones, one at a time and use clips on the gutters to stretch the material athwartships first, which will reveal where the cuts are needed. Do it on a warm day when the vinyl will stretch but don’t use a heat gun.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| You have to make relief cuts on the corners. Very small ones, one at a time and use clips on the gutters to stretch the material athwartships first, which will reveal where the cuts are needed. Do it on a warm day when the vinyl will stretch but don’t use a heat gun. |
Awesome thanks, I'll give that a try after I get the pillar vinyl on.
I've got clips all the way up and down the gutters. Just a little difficult to see in the pic. I'm thinking I might need to cut the bow sleeves back a little, because I can't pull those wrinkles out on the two center bows where they meet the gutter. I've pulled til my damn fingers are sore, lol! Or will those smooth out after I get the corners tight?
Dont need to worry about temps. Still mid 80's to low 90's with decent humidity for the next couple weeks at least!
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9637
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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Would be amusing to hear a German trying to pronounce this- "US vart sheeps".  |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| Era Vulgaris wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| You have to make relief cuts on the corners. Very small ones, one at a time and use clips on the gutters to stretch the material athwartships first, which will reveal where the cuts are needed. Do it on a warm day when the vinyl will stretch but don’t use a heat gun. |
Awesome thanks, I'll give that a try after I get the pillar vinyl on.
I've got clips all the way up and down the gutters. Just a little difficult to see in the pic. I'm thinking I might need to cut the bow sleeves back a little, because I can't pull those wrinkles out on the two center bows where they meet the gutter. I've pulled til my damn fingers are sore, lol! Or will those smooth out after I get the corners tight?
Dont need to worry about temps. Still mid 80's to low 90's with decent humidity for the next couple weeks at least! |
Yes I forgot to mention that you usually. Have to cut back the bow pockets so the material can hang down.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:19 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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My Newton square weave carpet is here. I've got a good bit of work to do still before this goes in, but it's one big ticket item off the "to buy" list
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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Goddamn TMI. In the background is their #15 off-white perforated vinyl headliner. The three smooth vinyl samples are left to right #14 beige, #15 off-white, and #22 cream white.
And along the bottom of the pic you can see the #15 off-white bulk smooth vinyl that I bought to do the A and C-pillars, thinking it would match the headliner.
Why the hell is their smooth vinyl off-white a different color than their perforated off-white?! The cream white is close but it's whiter than the headliner. I guess I have to do my pillars in perforated vinyl then. Damn annoying!
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:56 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| Era Vulgaris wrote: |
| Why the hell is their smooth vinyl off-white a different color than their perforated off-white?! |
I don't see a "#15 off white" perforated headliner in my circa 2004 TMI samples catalog. Of course what I have may be out of date in which case ignore this post and carry on. But what I have in hand shows that those materials have different color number codes. The off white that their smooth vinyl comes in is "#15 off white", while their standard perforated headliner is "#44 off white" and their premium heavy weight perforated headliner is "#44H off white". For their headliners the "#44H off white" is slightly darker than the "#44 off white", but it's possible you might find their "#46 grey" perforated headliner a closer match to your "#15 off white" smooth vinyl. Trying to compare colors across computer monitors can be an exercise in futility, but FWIW here's a composite photo of the relevant two pages from the TMI samples catalog in which you may be able to discern the color number code labels below the various samples. Hope that helps. Good luck.
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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Damn, you're right. I ordered the headliner from CIP1, and they don't list the color number, only the name. I see now the 44 is in the part number, but I didn't look that deep. Silly me I made the mistake of thinking two vinyls with the same color name from the same company would be the same color 
Oh well, no biggie. Would've been nice to have the smooth vinyl pillars, but it's all installed now so there's no going back. At least now I know for the next one!
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| Era Vulgaris wrote: |
| I ordered the headliner from CIP1... |
When I was planning my Ghia's interior I recall finding it challenging to contact TMI directly; it seemed necessary to work with a dealer, i.e., middleman. I was lucky to find a middleman with full knowledge and understanding of TMI's products willing to take the time to explain the surprising (to me) extent of TMI's offerings and the intricacies of ordering for me to understand exactly what I was getting. TMI doesn't always have what you want, but sometimes you find...  |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3031
Location: Vermont
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Peter D.
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2004
Posts: 718
Location: Stamford, CT
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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About the headliner... I'm curious to know the final length of the bow pockets. I've done a few searches and no one pinpoints the exact length they should be. I got my headliner from Sewfine and the bow pockets are about 40 inches. I get the impression they are cut to length but I can't be sure. Let us know where you end up with yours.
As for the A and C pillars, I stupidly threw my old pillar covers out... wish I hadn't since I could have use them for a template. This picture from the Ghia couipe gallery shows the original look and cut of the material at the bottom of the C-pillar, along with the line of the headliner on top.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10997
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:13 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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Bow pockets nearly always have to be trimmed to match the curve of t(e roof so you don’t get wrinkles. It’s trial and hopefully no error. Just make small cuts until the wrinkle is gone.
Rome, I bought a TMI headliner for my Squareback and the there is a lot of smooth vinyl used on the pillars and below the window area and it’s an exact match to the perforated suspended part of the headliner. These days you can call TMI direct and order. I’d ask them about that. What you ordered is seat upholstery…
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| Peter D. wrote: |
About the headliner... I'm curious to know the final length of the bow pockets. I've done a few searches and no one pinpoints the exact length they should be. I got my headliner from Sewfine and the bow pockets are about 40 inches. I get the impression they are cut to length but I can't be sure. Let us know where you end up with yours.
As for the A and C pillars, I stupidly threw my old pillar covers out... wish I hadn't since I could have use them for a template. This picture from the Ghia couipe gallery shows the original look and cut of the material at the bottom of the C-pillar, along with the line of the headliner on top.
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Having just done the headliner, I think it might be difficult to make definitive statements about lengths of anything. My advice is to trial fit it first with no glue and a crapload of binder clips. Just keep stretching and trimming until you get as much of the wrinkles out as possible. That way when you actually do use the glue, your chances of a screw up are minimized. I did end up trimming the bow pockets back a bit from the ends, maybe a couple inches. I couldn't say a definite length, I just kept trimming until I could stretch it with no wrinkles.
I actually kept my original A and C pillar vinyl, which was a totally different off-white color to all the other off-whites 
I sketched the outline out in pencil on the backside of the vinyl, but I quickly realized as soon as I started stretching it out over the pillars that going by any previous guide was useless. Just keep stretching til it's smooth and where you want it.
I dunno, maybe folks who've done a bunch of these might have better advice! 
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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I'm at a bit of an impasse here and thought I'd see if folks here had any advice. When I bought the car it had cal-look seals on it, and the front windshield looked clean with no de-lamination. When I took the car apart I saw it did have de-lamination hidden below the seal, but it didn't occur to me at the time that the OEM seal is shorter than the cal-look seal (you can see a residue line from where the cal-look seal sat on the glass above the de-lamination. I need to clean it better!)
The problem I have here is that there is 2-3mm of de-lamination visible along the bottom of the windshield with the seal fully seated. I feel like I already know what the answer is gonna be, but is there anything I can do about this?
The car does have all its original glass it left the factory with, which is why I hate to buy an aftermarket windshield. I'm trying to convince myself this isn't a huge deal, but I'm not finding myself very convincing
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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crocteau
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 1204
Location: Philaburbia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| Era Vulgaris wrote: |
| I feel like I already know what the answer is gonna be... |
Go with your gut |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| crocteau wrote: |
| Era Vulgaris wrote: |
| I feel like I already know what the answer is gonna be... |
Go with your gut |
Yeah, I mean...I know!
I guess the better question I should ask, since I'm building this car to eventually sell...is it better to have original factory glass that has a small bit of visible de-lamination, or aftermarket glass? That's the question that I can't seem to answer for myself, imagining if I was the one buying the car
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3914
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
I got a guy to sandblast the original markings on my replacement screen
Nicholas |
Now that is a cool idea!
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1672
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia coupe restoration |
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A little bit of progress everyday (well, maybe not every day! ) keeps it moving along
_________________
Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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