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loftbed
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2021
Posts: 32
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: cars stance |
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Ok, I bought this 1962 Beetle sedan and would like to get it to sit level or with a slight drop in the front. As you can see in the photo it sits higher in the front. Is there a simple way to drop that front enough to level up the car.
_________________
1928 Buick Sport Roadster
1957 Ford Thunderbird
1960 Cushman Truckster
1962 VW Beetle standard sedan
1965 "Factory Five Racing" Shelby Cobra
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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Bag of concrete in trunk?
Drop spindles are common, though a bit of work.
How is the rear camber? Is it high in front or low in rear?
I would investigate why it's high. Stuck shock? Lack of lube? |
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Big Bill
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 1782
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| Really no 'simple way " to drop the front without getting a terrible ride. As KT said dropped spindles or maybe an adjustable front beam those are not simple to install. Maybe you could see what shocks are in the front if they are KYB Gas shocks that will raise the front a little. I changed my front and rears shocks to oil filled and got a better ride and it lowered the front maybe an inch. You look like 2 or so inches would be a nice level fo your car. BTW, very nice bug. |
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loftbed
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2021
Posts: 32
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| Big Bill wrote: |
| Really no 'simple way " to drop the front without getting a terrible ride. As KT said dropped spindles or maybe an adjustable front beam those are not simple to install. Maybe you could see what shocks are in the front if they are KYB Gas shocks that will raise the front a little. I changed my front and rears shocks to oil filled and got a better ride and it lowered the front maybe an inch. You look like 2 or so inches would be a nice level fo your car. BTW, very nice bug. |
Bill, If I might ask, what brand of oil filled shocks did you use, if your front dropped an inch, that might be just what I need. The shocks on the car are what I believe came in some kind of kit the PO installed as part of the restoration. No name on them at all.
_________________
1928 Buick Sport Roadster
1957 Ford Thunderbird
1960 Cushman Truckster
1962 VW Beetle standard sedan
1965 "Factory Five Racing" Shelby Cobra
http://www.customfurniture.net/ |
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Stockholm VW
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2020
Posts: 304
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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WW sells stock type oil shocks. I replaced the gas shocks for oil due to the rough ride of the KYB gas shocks. The gas shocks are not lifting the front like
yours.
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1966 Volkswagen Sedan 1300 (now 1641), 6 volt, L456 Ruby Red, Platinum leatherette.
Last edited by Stockholm VW on Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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The front is too high and the rear too low.
The front might have the wrong shocks. The rear mignt have the torsion bars sag over the years.
Both can be fixed... $$$.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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My 60 has been lowered and rides very nice actually. These aren’t Cadillacs. I have 2.5” dropped spindles with a narrowed/adjustable beam and KYBs.
Edit*- The point being that you can have a nice riding lowered car if done correctly. But as with most things, it take time, money and effort. There isn’t any truly cheap way to lower the front that will retain your ride. A similar setup to mine would run close to $1k if you do it yourself. Paying someone will possibly double that. This price excludes tires which you will need smaller ones of. This isn’t a huge cost but one that will be necessary for clearance.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine
Last edited by Sharp64 on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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^^^^^^
Sweeeeet
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| Glenn wrote: |
^^^^^^
Sweeeeet |
Thank you
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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loftbed
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2021
Posts: 32
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
My 60 has been lowered and rides very nice actually. These aren’t Cadillacs. I have 2.5” dropped spindles with a narrowed/adjustable beam and KYBs.
Edit*- The point being that you can have a nice riding lowered car if done correctly. But as with most things, it take time, money and effort. There isn’t any truly cheap way to lower the front that will retain your ride. A similar setup to mine would run close to $1k if you do it yourself. Paying someone will possibly double that. This price excludes tires which you will need smaller ones of. This isn’t a huge cost but one that will be necessary for clearance. |
What I'm looking for with this car is pretty much a factory look, I do like the look of lowered cars (I grew up in the 50's) but for a man of my age getting into your car would be problematic. I might have to try a set of oil filled shocks up front and if that doesn't work, dropped spindels?
Rod
_________________
1928 Buick Sport Roadster
1957 Ford Thunderbird
1960 Cushman Truckster
1962 VW Beetle standard sedan
1965 "Factory Five Racing" Shelby Cobra
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:44 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| loftbed wrote: |
| Sharp64 wrote: |
My 60 has been lowered and rides very nice actually. These aren’t Cadillacs. I have 2.5” dropped spindles with a narrowed/adjustable beam and KYBs.
Edit*- The point being that you can have a nice riding lowered car if done correctly. But as with most things, it take time, money and effort. There isn’t any truly cheap way to lower the front that will retain your ride. A similar setup to mine would run close to $1k if you do it yourself. Paying someone will possibly double that. This price excludes tires which you will need smaller ones of. This isn’t a huge cost but one that will be necessary for clearance. |
What I'm looking for with this car is pretty much a factory look, I do like the look of lowered cars (I grew up in the 50's) but for a man of my age getting into your car would be problematic. I might have to try a set of oil filled shocks up front and if that doesn't work, dropped spindels?
Rod |
Posted mainly to counter the "lowered cars drive like crap" statement above.
With that said, I’m only an inch or so lower than the dropped spindles as I don’t have the beam all the way down. I’m mainly using the beam to bring the wheels in to clear the fenders from rubbing under hard braking. It’s really not that low at all. And I’m 53 so not exactly a kid. Getting in and out isn't a chore at all. Trying to help give you a visual. Good luck.
I would admit, the front end on yours looks very high. I would investigate the shocks used and possibly if there is something else going on up there. I know the 67's seem to have the ass down, nose up a bit, but doesnt usually seem this prevalent on the earlier ones.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Big Bill
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2005
Posts: 1782
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:38 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| loftbed wrote: |
| Big Bill wrote: |
| Really no 'simple way " to drop the front without getting a terrible ride. As KT said dropped spindles or maybe an adjustable front beam those are not simple to install. Maybe you could see what shocks are in the front if they are KYB Gas shocks that will raise the front a little. I changed my front and rears shocks to oil filled and got a better ride and it lowered the front maybe an inch. You look like 2 or so inches would be a nice level fo your car. BTW, very nice bug. |
Bill, If I might ask, what brand of oil filled shocks did you use, if your front dropped an inch, that might be just what I need. The shocks on the car are what I believe came in some kind of kit the PO installed as part of the restoration. No name on them at all. |
I used Sachs brand shocks from the local Aircooled shop. WW makes a very nice oil filled shock, I have used on my when I still had it. The ride is much better with the new shocks
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
...
How is the rear camber? Is it high in front or low in rear?
I would investigate why it's high. Stuck shock? Lack of lube? |
^^This^^
If the rear wheels exhibit any negative camber with the car only lightly loaded, the rear torsion bars need to be adjusted; you'll never get the car to sit level to slightly nose down without modifying the front beam/spindles if the rear is squatting.
I'd like to highlight the very last part of KTPhil's post as well: an aspect often overlooked when a car's front end is stiff or riding high is proper lubrication of the front beam. Especially with cars that have been neglected or have sat unused for long periods, one will really need to jack the front end up so the tires are off the ground, pump what may seem a rediculous amount of grease through all the front suspension zerk fittings, then go drive the car over bumpy roads or in a spirited manner in order to work the suspension. This may need to be done several times in order to get things lubed back up and moving as they should.
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loftbed
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2021
Posts: 32
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
...
How is the rear camber? Is it high in front or low in rear?
I would investigate why it's high. Stuck shock? Lack of lube? |
^^This^^
If the rear wheels exhibit any negative camber with the car only lightly loaded, the rear torsion bars need to be adjusted; you'll never get the car to sit level to slightly nose down without modifying the front beam/spindles if the rear is squatting.
I'd like to highlight the very last part of KTPhil's post as well: an aspect often overlooked when a car's front end is stiff or riding high is proper lubrication of the front beam. Especially with cars that have been neglected or have sat unused for long periods, one will really need to jack the front end up so the tires are off the ground, pump what may seem a rediculous amount of grease through all the front suspension zerk fittings, then go drive the car over bumpy roads or in a spirited manner in order to work the suspension. This may need to be done several times in order to get things lubed back up and moving as they should. |
I do not know how long the car sat prior to restoration or what was done (if anything) to the front beam. The PO replaced all the steering components and the shocks. I will change the shocks to oil filled and do the suggested lubing. The PO bought the car in 2013 and I suspect it pretty much sat while he restored it. Considering its condition when he got it, I'd bet it sat for a considerable time prior. It does seem to ride pretty nice, but this is my first VW so I have no idea what to expect. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.
Rod
_________________
1928 Buick Sport Roadster
1957 Ford Thunderbird
1960 Cushman Truckster
1962 VW Beetle standard sedan
1965 "Factory Five Racing" Shelby Cobra
http://www.customfurniture.net/ |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2507
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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For some reason, Beetles tended to sit high in the front, even when brand new. Karmann Ghias did as well.
If you're just looking to lose that nose-high stance and maintain a more-or-less stock appearance, then consider installing an adjustable front axle beam. I used one on my '63 to drop the front about 1 1/4" for exactly this reason (photo below). The standard oil-filled shocks don't bottom out, and I run 165-80 tires on stock wheels. The front tires also don't rub (even at full lock), and the car rides pretty much like stock without being unduly harsh. The rear axle is set at stock height.
If that's too much to deal with, then just follow ktphil's suggestion and add some weight to the trunk.
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'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone)
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toxicavenger70
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2019
Posts: 871
Location: CO
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:48 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| I recommend installing some stock style oil filled shocks, lube up the front beam, and replace the rear torsion bar bushings. Then measure the suspension front and rear. The rear came lower than the front from the factory. A stock suspension in good shape will ride better than anything else. Here is a good thread to read https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=731781 |
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Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 460
Location: Canadian Rockies
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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I bet with you in the bug, a full tank, and a 50# tool bag under the hood it will be a more level stance. Let's see a pic of that!
By the way - you got yourself a beauty!
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Larmo63
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Joined: May 26, 2015
Posts: 338
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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rcooled's red ragtop sits perfect to my eyes.
That's what I would shoot for.
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Lawrence
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‘61 Mango Green Single Cab
'62 Pearl White Ragtop sedan
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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2 1974s, the blue one is stock and original. The red one is mine and dropped 3".
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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loftbed
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2021
Posts: 32
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: cars stance |
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| Glenn wrote: |
2 1974s, the blue one is stock and original. The red one is mine and dropped 3".
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I'm partial to Blue.  
_________________
1928 Buick Sport Roadster
1957 Ford Thunderbird
1960 Cushman Truckster
1962 VW Beetle standard sedan
1965 "Factory Five Racing" Shelby Cobra
http://www.customfurniture.net/ |
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