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Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus
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jonreed98
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

Hi everyone, I am looking for feedback. Ive seen lots of tie rod posts but cant find anything related to my questions so here it goes. I have a 63 brazilian bus that I just had the beam narrowed 4" and spindles flipped. The stock tie rods (without ends) is about 19". The place who narrowed my beam sent me narrowed ones that are about 17". When I went to install them they were way to long. My wheels had a lot of toe-in. I cut another 2" off each side for a total of 4" on each rod. They seem to fit perfectly and I am able to get a perfect toe with about 1/8" toe-in in the front. Does this sound odd I have to cut the tie rods 4" on each side. Im not sure why this was necessary but it seems to work
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jonreed98
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

well I guess it must not be strange since no one has commented
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DubStyle
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

Narrowing the tie rods is normal. Now removing the material where your threads are is not recommended. You really have two options when doing this...

1. If you cut the ends off, make sure you have sufficient threads to hold the TRE securely. You can always add threads with a tap.

2. Most people remove from the center and weld them back together. How you do this is up to you. I remove the material from the center and us hex stock turned down to fit into the tie rod, weld them back together and now I have a hex to adjust my tie rods. Plus this adds strength to the tubes welded back together.

If the route you went works, then you are good!
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Culito
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

DubStyle wrote:
2. Most people remove from the center and weld them back together. How you do this is up to you. I remove the material from the center and us hex stock turned down to fit into the tie rod, weld them back together and now I have a hex to adjust my tie rods. Plus this adds strength to the tubes welded back together.

If the route you went works, then you are good!

On my bug, I removed material from the center and used an old section of sway bar inserted into the center. Welded all the way around and plug welded the insert in two places on each side.
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patjones
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

I bought these and they worked great for my 4inch narrowed beam.

https://valleyautowerks-com.3dcartstores.com/New-narrowed-tie-rod-tubes_p_24.html
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jonreed98
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

thanks everyone however I wasnt asking about how to cut the tie rods, I know how to do that, I trimmed the right hand threaded end and retapped it. Im not a big fan of cutting in half a perfectly solid tie rod when cutting the end and rethreading is how it was orginally made. My question was............I had a 4" narrowed beam however cutting 2" of the tie rods didnt work, I had to cut 4" off each side. This seemed weird to me since I only shortened it a total of 4" .
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

Since you had the originals to compare to it does seem ultra weird.
2+2 X 2 = 8 no matter how you slice it (pun intended). When the spindles are flipped does the hole end up in the same linear axis plane?
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jonreed98
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

I agree its weird. Im not sure that there is any difference on tie rods length when the spindles are flipped but for sure my bean was narrowed 4" and I had to cut 4" off each tie rod to get the correct geometry . Oh well, It works and the front is aligned so I guess Ill chuck it up a mystery haha
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campingbox Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
When the spindles are flipped does the hole end up in the same linear axis plane?


Imagine it like a triangle.

Hypotenuse = tierod with ends
Opposite side = spindles
Adjacent side = beam

You can do basic geometry to calculate how the hypotenuse will change if you modify either of the sides. In this case he’s modified both sides. The tierods needs to be 2” + shorter than a stock one.

I think the baywindow tiered centers may slightly longer than the split ones. Since they are adjustable, this isn’t always a problem. I expect different manufacturers may have slightly different length.

As far as the best way to modify the tierods, it probably depends on the manufacturer and the type of material they used. If it’s a solid bar I think it’s best to drill and tap the ends deeper. If it’s a tube or probably depends on how the threads on the end were created and whether there is enough material to cut a tap deeper. Sometimes tubes and crimped down or opened up during the threading process and running a standard tap deeper could weaken the ends.
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ach60 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: Cutting tie rods for 4" narrowed beam on bus Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry
I think this may help, but it also makes me wonder about all the changes we do to VWs, and how they may get us killed.
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