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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:32 pm Post subject: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Hey all! Bubba and I made it down to san diego. I just signed a lease for an apartment in solana beach, and I'm super stoked about it. On the way down, I got stuck at a gas station after filling up. Turning the key didn't do anything, so I got under the bus with a screwdriver and connected the terminals on the solenoid(?) and the starter seemed to be working (saw sparks and the starter made a spinning noise). I jumped back in the bus, turned the key, and it started right up. Now, every time I turn the bus off I have to do the same process (jump under the bus and bridge the terminal connections to the starter, then start it with the ignition). Is this a sign that the starter is beginning to fail and that I should replace it? Or is there something else going on?
At first I was thinking it was another wiring issue, but i'm a bit stumped because it seems to work as soon as I bridge the connections temporarily.
Thank you in advance!
Ryan |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Also, does anyone have recommendations for a mechanic in San Diego county? Just in case I get over my head on any mechanical work... |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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The VW starters are notorious at doing this, What year? It's something about any garage can do, it's only 2 bolts? It could be something else though. Or even a combination of things:
Poor Battery,
Poor Charging,
Poor ground or battery cable,
Bad Ignition Switch,
Overheating engine,
Poor Starter likely the Solenoid needs cleaning and lubed.
Etc.... Maybe get the SR-17x starter incase it's a worn bell housing bushing, it doesn't use one. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!
Last edited by Danwvw on Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Danwvw wrote: |
The VW starters are notorious at doing this, What year? It's something about any garage can do, it's only 2 bolts? It could be something else though. Or even a combination of things:
Poor Battery,
Poor Charging,
Poor ground or battery cable,
Bad Ignition Switch,
Overheating engine,
Poor Starter likely the Solenoid needs cleaning and lubed.
Etc.... Maybe get the SR-17x starter incase it's a worn bell housing bushing, it doesn't use one. |
Thanks for the quick response! The bus is a 1973 manual transmission. Over the summer I had charging issues, so I've recently replaced the battery, voltage regulator, alternator, and wiring to those components.
Driving down I was worried that the engine was running a bit hot in the San Francisco area, which is where it started happening. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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If you have a voltmeter if it's a charging issue the rest voltage on the battery will be low. It should be 12.6 volts. The charging voltage should be 14 volts. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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OB Bus Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003 Posts: 2528 Location: Ocean Beach in Beautiful BLUE California
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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And for a mechanic, contact Robbie (AsiaB3) or Gary (Aeromech) on these forums. Both reasonably close to you. If everything else checks out, consider a hot start relay. I have had one on my bus for 6? 8? years. _________________ Larry in OB
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
69 Westfalia and 2002 Eurovan Camper. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Pull the starter and then remove the solenoid from it and use a spray cleaner to clean up the plunger in the solenoid. Lube it back up with something like Super Lube or a high temperature electrical grease. This will probably keep the solenoid going strong until it's time to rebuild the starter. If you are really game you can check the condition of the starter brushes while you are at it, if they are no longer tall enough to stick out passed the ends of the brush holders they are shot and the starter is due for a rebuild.
A hand impact driver is a good tool to have on hand when you go to tear into a starter and can be quite useful for other repairs. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Pull the starter and then remove the solenoid from it and use a spray cleaner to clean up the plunger in the solenoid. Lube it back up with something like Super Lube or a high temperature electrical grease. This will probably keep the solenoid going strong until it's time to rebuild the starter. If you are really game you can check the condition of the starter brushes while you are at it, if they are no longer tall enough to stick out passed the ends of the brush holders they are shot and the starter is due for a rebuild.
A hand impact driver is a good tool to have on hand when you go to tear into a starter and can be quite useful for other repairs. |
x2
it is a well known issue and 99% of the time lubing the solenoid solves the issue for another 60,000 miles. you can just tap the side of the solenoid and that will causei to work usually too. A hot start relay is a waste of money unless you are trying to protect the ignition switch. Sometimes hot start replays bring about their own set of problems. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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OB Bus wrote: |
And for a mechanic, contact Robbie (AsiaB3) or Gary (Aeromech) on these forums. Both reasonably close to you. If everything else checks out, consider a hot start relay. I have had one on my bus for 6? 8? years. |
I just reached out to Gary! Thank you for the advice! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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10 PM update
Ryan started driving the 15 miles or so from his place in Solana Beach to bring his bus to my house. The job was for a starter not cranking with the key. He got within 7 miles and broke down on 5 south in Sorento Valley. There was a long tow truck delay but he finally arrived on a flat bed around 9pm.
Once he left, I used a wrench and started rotating the engine. After about 20 degrees it stopped hard. So I reversed and after about 40 degrees it stopped again.
So I’m thinking we’ve moved beyond a starter issue to an internal engine issue. There is no oil spewed anywhere so I don’t think he threw a rod. My guess is it’s a cam gear bolt hitting the oil pump.
Telford is coming over at 9 am and then we’ll investigate. Might as well keep all of this in one thread but the title might need to be altered some _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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alman72 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 2573 Location: MICHIGAN
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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bubbais a 1973 single carb? |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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bummer _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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alman72 wrote: |
bubbais a 1973 single carb? |
Yep! |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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You're telling me! As Aeromech said to me last night, "You could be in Alaska". |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Here's the beginning of some pics to add a bit of artwork to this thread.
Ryan and his friend.
He bought this bus last year in Florida and had it delivered to his home in Portland
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Now for the gory details. After making the long trip from Portland to the San Diego area, Ryan decided to bring his bus to me for some starter troubleshooting. Here's what happened about 10 minutes from my house.
Those aren't Telfords legs
Telford working on removing the bad head
Tip of #2 valve stem let go and the #2 exhaust valve departed
Here's the number two spark plug
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound
Last edited by aeromech on Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Hide your eyes
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Were all the exhaust valves the same so that we could learn the brand? The ends of the valve stems speak of high miles on the engine since the last rebuild and/or the use of substandard valves. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Were all the exhaust valves the same so that we could learn the brand? The ends of the valve stems speak of high miles on the engine since the last rebuild and/or the use of substandard valves. |
I haven't looked closely. Telford and Robbie both said that the lifters were solids but the push rods were made for hydraulics. Not sure how that would have affected things.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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CrRusty Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2010 Posts: 281 Location: Avon< CT
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Issue - replace or something else? |
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On a positive note: He is very lucky to break down where He did. He is in good hands. Unlucky, but very lucky... if you know what I mean. |
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