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dobryan
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RGS Paul
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Los Alamos, NM
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 Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:10 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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My Dad has one and I have the German style one Florian used to sell that has the coarser coupling teeth. We both prefer mine, it couples and decouples much faster and neither of us worry about activating mine while driving (I don't use it over ~45-50 mph as an arbitrary cutoff). The GoWesty one that use the spline shaft tends to be sticky and is sometimes slow to couple or decouple. If you have a solid shaft it probably doesn't matter much but both of us still have aggressive viscous couplings and we engage and disengage pretty frequently during normal driving.
Overall no complaints about the old GW one (it was installed in ~2006), we both just like the other style more.
Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3042
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:38 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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Just say no to decouplers!
The off roading required to actually need a solid shaft 4wd system is far beyond what I'd ever take my Vanagon on. It's winch mandatory territory. It's body damage is a source of pride territory. It's the underside of your van will never be clean again territory. My rallycross car permanently smells like a barnyard. I can't get the dirt smell out, it's been in the mud and heavy dust too many times. I wouldn't want to sleep in that car.
It's beyond these pictures:
I honestly think the best set up for an off road Vanagon is rear LSD, viscous coupler, front locker, and a winch. Rear LSD with a locker is icing on the cake. A lot of trails can be done with a basic AWD system and careful line choice. If you want to do the hardest and gnarliest lines, the van isn't the right tool for the job anyway because ground clearance, wheelbase in relation to the size of tires that can be fitted, and front overhang are all wrong. Keeping the viscous coupling, especially paired with a rear LSD, means that 100% of your driving is done with a really stable, responsive, and capable AWD system. Putting a decoupler in there basically neuters the vehicle for 99.99% of driving and makes it a bit better for extremely specific situations where a winch would have accomplished the same thing.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Just say no to decouplers!
The off roading required to actually need a solid shaft 4wd system is far beyond what I'd ever take my Vanagon on. It's winch mandatory territory. It's body damage is a source of pride territory. It's the underside of your van will never be clean again territory. My rallycross car permanently smells like a barnyard. I can't get the dirt smell out, it's been in the mud and heavy dust too many times. I wouldn't want to sleep in that car.
I honestly think the best set up for an off road Vanagon is rear LSD, viscous coupler, front locker, and a winch. Rear LSD with a locker is icing on the cake. A lot of trails can be done with a basic AWD system and careful line choice. If you want to do the hardest and gnarliest lines, the van isn't the right tool for the job anyway because ground clearance, wheelbase in relation to the size of tires that can be fitted, and front overhang are all wrong. Keeping the viscous coupling, especially paired with a rear LSD, means that 100% of your driving is done with a really stable, responsive, and capable AWD system. Putting a decoupler in there basically neuters the vehicle for 99.99% of driving and makes it a bit better for extremely specific situations where a winch would have accomplished the same thing. |
I agree with your comments but that is not why I am considering a decoupler.
I'd like to be able to drive decoupled 99% of the time when I do not need the syncro capabilities, i.e. 2wd rear drive with a peloquin.
When I go off road, and need it, I would couple the system and let the VC take over.
(It will have a front locker, and rear locker with peloquin)
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3042
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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Decoupler with a VC is even worse. 
It's like hiking in bear country with a rifle and leaving the ammunition in the truck. You have the tool to avoid accidents, but you can't use it when you need to. Rainy day, a car pulls out in a 4 way stop, etc... AWD is going to help. You're not going to be able to engage it fast enough and steer.
And then there's the hearsay... supposedly leaving it engaged nets you 1mpg boost and the more valuable reason, it is less wear and tear on your transmission because it distributes the load.
But, *steps off soapbox* you know what you're doing, you have been in the Vanagon world longer than I've been around.
_________________
'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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michaelasnider
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Joined: September 27, 2013
Posts: 368
Location: East Kootenays, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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I have a GW decoupler, VC, front and rear lockers, both with peloquins. Decoupler is very nice to have for city driving, nice to have the option of running only 2wd in paved parking lots.
The GW decoupler is very fast. I had a vacuum line that was degrading that was making the function slow, but since that has been repaired the action is very quick to couple/uncouple. |
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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dobryan
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Syncro Jael
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Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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I have used both the GW and one from AA.
Both worked well but the forks on the AA decoupler developed wear on them. I am sure the metal ended up in my gear oil filter. 
When I sold the van, it had the GW decoupler.
SOAPBOX: And yes, keep it coupled all the time on highways. It does take some of the load off the transaxle. It is a proven fact by lower transaxle gear oil temps on the highway. I have seen it personally and documented it somewhere on here.
I have never used a peloquin. But I have been on shelf roads that had a pretty sketchy side slope in snow. Locking up the rear end will send you sideways quickly. I found this out the hard way and almost went down the side of the mountain. I am not sure I want the van to have a mind of it's own and lock up when I really don't want it to. On side slopes the van tracks straighter with only one front and one rear spinning. Again I have never had a peloquin, so maybe it doesn't matter. I dunno.
Pic for Attention purposes only.
I am happy to see you have gone down the Syncro Rabbit Hole!
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)
Last edited by Syncro Jael on Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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michaelasnider
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2013
Posts: 368
Location: East Kootenays, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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Nope, drive year round on dry pavement, snow/ice covered roads, and forest service/gravel roads in varying states of decay.
Never felt that there is any negative to it. The van can crawl its way up some pretty steep and loose terrain.
And yes, I always highway drive coupled, notice a difference in driving characteristics. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| Syncro Jael wrote: |
SOAPBOX: And yes, keep it coupled all the time on highways. It does take some of the load off the transaxle. It is a proven fact by lower transaxle gear oil temps on the highway. I have seen it personally and documented it somewhere on here.
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Good to know. So under what conditions did you find the decoupler useful?
| Syncro Jael wrote: |
I am happy to see you have gone down the Syncro Rabbit Hole!
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I'll let you know if my wallet $hare$ your happine$$.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3042
Location: MD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| Good to know. So under what conditions did you find the decoupler useful? |
With a VC? Literally none.
With a solid shaft: Very loose sand. Very deep mud. Very steep inclines. Very large rock crawling.
ok ok ok... really I'm getting off this soapbox.
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Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
| dobryan wrote: |
| Good to know. So under what conditions did you find the decoupler useful? |
With a VC? Literally none.
With a solid shaft: Very loose sand. Very deep mud. Very steep inclines. Very large rock crawling.
ok ok ok... really I'm getting off this soapbox. |
I also want to hear what Ron has to say. I believe he has more off road experience in Jael than anyone I've ever seen.... 
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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photogdave
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Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3052
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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I've had the AA decoupler for 5-6 years now (have to check my records). Works as it should, no hesitations.
I drive coupled most of the time and tend to decouple for tight turns on pavement and light city driving with lots of parking lot trips.
It's also peace of mind if I need to use an odd size spare for some reason.
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89 Syncro GL Westfalia 2.1 WBX/WBXaustSS
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Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| I also want to hear what Ron has to say. I believe he has more off road experience in Jael than anyone I've ever seen.... |
I have logged a few miles off the beaten path.
I had a Sport VC installed by Daryl at AA back in the day. He recommended it instead of a solid shaft for my style of driving. Mainly I live in Utah and wanted to have an AWD vehicle for the paved roads. A solid shaft is "no Bueno" on icy roads when turning. It makes the vehicle a true 4wd. You need that slip between the front and rear to keep the steering axles free.
If you want an all out off roader, then yes, go solid shaft and delete the VC. In loose sand a VC will let the rear dig in a little before the front end catches up. But I have never had an issue in sand with my setup and tires aired down. The Sport VC engages pretty quickly.
You want to decouple once you get in town. When making turns and especially in parking lots.
It really depends on what you plan to build it for.
I was very happy with my build and it served me well.
Here are a couple times I am glad to have everything locked up!
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| What new decoupler types / brands are currently available now? |
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dobryan
Samba Member
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Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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photogdave
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Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9609
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: GoWesty Decoupler impressions wanted |
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| Syncro Jael wrote: |
| You want to decouple once you get in town. When making turns and especially in parking lots. |
Perhaps with a "sport VC".
I have an normal VC and while it is a noticeable difference, parking in town doesn't inspire me to decouple.
Maybe if I was parking all day long....
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I highly doubt anybody can tell a performance difference between any decoupler.
A worn-out trans, with wobbly shafts, could cause coupling delays.
Vacuum problems, driveshaft balance problems can cause delays.
Maybe one that's gummed up from non-use?
Many of these 35-year old transaxles contaminate their oil quicker than the owners think.
I have recently installed an old-school Van Cafe decoupler with the de-spun shifting fork. A luxury item, discontinued some years ago.
I doubt it makes any difference but I like the idea, and the craftsmanship.
I like my decoupler; mostly for screwing around.
1) I'll use 2wd sometimes if I need to report to 2wd friends if the road/route is OK for 2wd.
2) Decoupler is useful in the shop sometimes.
3) Decoupler is useful to save your (expensive VC ! ) if you have a tire/wheel size problem
4) Useful if you ever had some emergency a decoupler provides the option to tow the van with 2 wheels on the road. They all have bearings now for the shaft nose.
5) If you ever had a VC stuck (problem) you'd want to decouple.
6) On long drives you can entertain yourself. Pull the knob and wait for the drivetrain to unload and watch for the light to turn off etc. Watch transaxle temp rise ( a little).
7) don't underestimate the satisfaction of filling that blank spot (and green light) on the Syncro dash 
I would never "decouple 99% of the time".
I can't imagine any benefit. Paying the Syncro tax then driving 2wd?
Switch it a few times and you'll see why the Syncro feels glued to the road. Especially on gravel or wet road.
If you have two differentials, why put all the load on the rear diff?
Transaxle temperature drops 2°F when you're coupled, it's obvious and logical that 2wd is more load on the transaxle.
The van Cafe decoupler is the best built unit. Depends if CNC precision machined parts .vs. lasercut sheet steel etc is what you want.
Either one will work fine - like a Harbor Freight wrench works as well as a Snap-on.
The Van Cafe unit is much nicer hardware inside your trans (for ~$100 more).
Van Cafe unit has the tighter-tolerance bearings (both the Ball bearing and the composite shaft-end bearing) which will hold the driveshaft 'tru-er'.
That's probably the only real effect of the quality difference.
By looking at the parts, it seems illogical that someone would go to that effort to make such nice stuff then build it sloppily.
There is no physical principle that necessitates the large-tooth engagement. In 20 years nobody (AFAIK?) has ever reported wear on the spline engagement types.
And the tighter spline engagement logically can support the short little cardan shaft better. The shaft is only 4 inches long, it does not 'need' any slop added that driveshaft imbalance can start to whip around. The big-tooth coupler adds another location for slop.
I see it's currently out of stock at van-Cafe...... if you have the time and the $100, I'd get on the list & wait for the best.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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