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73bus_and_me Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 3 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Hi all, we just completed our first trip, driving to Lake Tahoe actually from the bay area, in our 73' Bay Window Bus (weekender) acquired last Spring. We slept for 3 nights in the bus and woke to several inches of snow the last morning. It was beautiful!!!
Anyhow, it was also "snowing" white dust from the wood panel in the ceiling which gave a noticeably white powdery appearance on the rubber mat flooring and also on our clothing. The panel has faint white embedded in the wood grain, which I assume are the remnants of paint.
We're not sure if we should replace the panel, seal it, get it sanded down by some kind of approved lead removal place or what not.
Our "next step" is probably to get an EPA-approved lead test kit.
Has anyone been through this and have any tips? |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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I’d seal it. Unless you add the flakes to your coffee, I doubt it would be a problem but lightly sand and then seal _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51003 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Welcome!
The finish flaking off the panelling isn't uncommon, even the best German coatings break down after 48 years. But you are the first to ask about lead content, I guess you'll want to avoid licking the interior if you are worried.
A good vacuuming with a stiff brush attachment usually gets all the loose crap off. Nobody has found a way to exactly replicate the photo printed finish on those, a light sanding, some whitish stain and a coat of varnish usually comes really close though. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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^^^^^^ what he said _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Malokin Martin Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007 Posts: 3090 Location: E-burg
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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The original panels are pickled. I can’t remember if they were varnished after. It doesn’t look like they were painted from 500 miles away in the one photo you posted on my screen. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15119 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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now if we could only get some radioactive coating.
then it would glow softly at night. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Honestly I would consider the entire bus to be lead contaminated. Therefore it’s a total loss. It just so happens that I recently (read tomorrow) started a company that specializes in lead disposal. My company will only charge you a small fee to collect your bus and make this problem go away for you. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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my59 Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003 Posts: 3775 Location: connecting the dots
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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I have dealt with lead contamination and remediation, owning an 1860's house and having young kids while renovating it.
Dry scraping and or sanding is a big don't do it.
Testing for lead if positive makes you liable if it's positive and you don't disclose.
Hepa vacuum and wet wiping might be something to consider. With loose debris off, priming and painting would encapsulate what's left..
Please keep in mind that lead affects children significantly more thN adults, as child's brains are still developing where adults are what they are.
Lead is an element, so we just move it around. Be cognizant of how it is disposed of, and only hunt waterfowl with steel or bismuth shot _________________ my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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metahacker Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010 Posts: 689 Location: san.diego
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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the Germans were already anti-lead-paint way before us (the US banned it in 1978).
In 1886, women and children were not allowed in lead paint factories.
By 1961, Germans considered lead paint a no-no. (simply a best practice, although not formally banned, if I understand correctly)
You should test it and let us know for all of our own edification.
I wouldn't let it concern you the least bit on your trip. If you want to put a mask on and wipe it with a wet rag, go for it.
But I wouldn't stress out about it.
Don't eat it. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51003 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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my59 wrote: |
Testing for lead if positive makes you liable if it's positive and you don't disclose. |
Yeah, I figured testing would be stepping into a big steaming pile of trouble, clean it up as safe as you can and don't mention it ever happened. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4003 Location: WA
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Buy a water filtration vacuum, around $125.00 and clean up the area then seal the panel with clear paint. |
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metahacker Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010 Posts: 689 Location: san.diego
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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oh cmon it's not like he has a rental property with some liability lawsuit lying in the wait
this is about their own bus and their own safety
wouldn't hurt to test and i'm sure many of us would honestly like to hear the results (or not, depending on what the test says, heh) |
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pioneer1 Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2008 Posts: 2067 Location: Ontario Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Seal the finish. I used a latex linen color stain to refinish. Move the stain around with a rag to create that woodgrain finish. Then seal with semi glass urethane. Just like new _________________ "Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"
'85 Porsche 911 Targa
'76 Westfalia project |
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73bus_and_me Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2021 Posts: 3 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Thanks everyone.
I did two lead paint tests and both were negative. Thank you Germany. The 3M lead test kit is really well designed. It includes a sheet with actual lead in it so you can confirm each test was capable of detecting lead.
I can't say this result would generalize to other buses (though hopefully it would) because it's possible a former owner could have modified the ceiling and painted it with US lead paint early in the bus's history. And who know what the history is of my bus?
Anyhow, my next step will be to sand the ceiling until the paint stops flaking off it. I don't necessarily need or want it to be eliminated entirely because it kind of looks retro and imperfect.
Then I'll apply a latex linen color stain to refinish as pioneer1 recommended. I think the challenge will be to waterproof it afterwards with a finish that does not look "glossy" so the water vapor from us sleeping at night (even with front windows cracked) does not affect the wood. Maybe some light sanding with steel wool would take care of any gloss.
Hey pioneer1, I also have an 80's-era 911 targa. Mine is a red 1987 with around 50 thousand original miles. |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16775 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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73bus_and_me wrote: |
The 3M lead test kit is really well designed. It includes a sheet with actual lead in it so you can confirm each test was capable of detecting lead.
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*buys poison test kit. kit includes poison*
what a world we live in
73bus_and_me wrote: |
Thank you Germany.
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not so fast. you'll have a stroke when you find out about the asbestos in the heating system _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7548
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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My buddy’s wife grew up driving bugs as a teenager. When she married my buddy (Who also owns a fleet of vintage VWs) she was daily driving an 80/81 Vanagon as her daily driver for many years. A handful of years ago she went to work for a firm that does lead testing. When she tested her Vanagon the results made her uncomfortable to let her young son travel in the Van. She stopped driving it for good. I don’t have details of the results but maybe I’ll ask her if she recalls the specifics. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1082 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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Xevin wrote: |
My buddy’s wife grew up driving bugs as a teenager. When she married my buddy (Who also owns a fleet of vintage VWs) she was daily driving an 80/81 Vanagon as her daily driver for many years. A handful of years ago she went to work for a firm that does lead testing. When she tested her Vanagon the results made her uncomfortable to let her young son travel in the Van. She stopped driving it for good. I don’t have details of the results but maybe I’ll ask her if she recalls the specifics. |
So in other words you really do not know what the source of the lead contamination was.
For the original poster. that is the original finish on your pannels. and it is a wood stain and not paint. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33820 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
73bus_and_me wrote: |
The 3M lead test kit is really well designed. It includes a sheet with actual lead in it so you can confirm each test was capable of detecting lead.
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*buys poison test kit. kit includes poison*
what a world we live in
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Lol! Funny shit! And no doubt for sale in California it has the Prop 65 warning label.
The only sillier thing is a warning on the laser pointer for my pistol that came with a sticker to put on the weapon stating that there is a health hazard from the laser light. Personally, I'd be more worried about the lead poisoning threat coming our of the barrel, not the photons... |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7548
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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sodbuster wrote: |
Xevin wrote: |
My buddy’s wife grew up driving bugs as a teenager. When she married my buddy (Who also owns a fleet of vintage VWs) she was daily driving an 80/81 Vanagon as her daily driver for many years. A handful of years ago she went to work for a firm that does lead testing. When she tested her Vanagon the results made her uncomfortable to let her young son travel in the Van. She stopped driving it for good. I don’t have details of the results but maybe I’ll ask her if she recalls the specifics. |
So in other words you really do not know what the source of the lead contamination was.
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This is absolutely correct. Hopefully I can get more details from her today and can report back. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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metahacker Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010 Posts: 689 Location: san.diego
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Lead paint in ceiling panel of 73? |
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just put a coat of penetrol on it and move on with your life, making note to appreciate the patina of your wood headlining that can only be earned and not purchased
the germans aint puttin lead in that shizz
no need to worry
told ya so
i know OLD and PAINT = LEAD death in most ppls minds
but that bus is probably safer with VOCs and toxins than any home built after 1945 |
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