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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Hi Ray,
Could I send you a PM regarding this master cylinder?
Bill |
Sure!
Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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The closer I get to the finish line, the further I feel sometimes…. Like the last 2 weeks.
Having a hell of a time rebuilding my MPS! Got the new diaphram from Tangerine Racing. After putting in the new parts and sealing up the MPS I cannot get it to pass a bench vacuum test… it will not hold vacuum for very long. Right now I am suspecting that the new large o-ring seal that seals the split in the housing is not sealing. Wondering if anyone else has had the same problem. Very frustrated…
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
The closer I get to the finish line, the further I feel sometimes…. Like the last 2 weeks.
Having a hell of a time rebuilding my MPS! Got the new diaphram from Tangerine Racing. After putting in the new parts and sealing up the MPS I cannot get it to pass a bench vacuum test… it will not hold vacuum for very long. Right now I am suspecting that the new large o-ring seal that seals the split in the housing is not sealing. Wondering if anyone else has had the same problem. Very frustrated…
Bill |
A quick check is to take either some silicone dielectric grease or some Superlube grease (do not use Vaseline)...and smear it around the the parting line of the two case halves of the MPS. Try vacuum again.
The other problem that is a little less common is leakage of the paper gasket caused by either a distortion during tightening down of the gasket or copper plate. Before getting into that though...test the main o-ring.
Then....test the electrical plug itself. In this case...DO NOT use a silicone grease. A small amount of a thick motor oil applied around FIRST the periphery of the plug body where it meets the aluminum to fill any possible gaps. Vacuum down. If it passes you know its leaking here. If nothing....next try some oil down in the plug. Flood it about 1/16th" deep around the pins and try again. If this does not help you can always clean all of the oil up with circuit cleaner.
If the plug is leaking....lets talk about that when you find it. There are a handful of methods. Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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Thanks Ray,
I’ll try those things you mentioned and report back.
Bill |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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I was able to seal the MPS and get it to hold vacuum. Actually holds vacuum now without bleeding down in over 10 minutes! The engine runs super well during warmup and settles into a very nice idle. The problem is after the engine is warm and I shut it down the restart is good but exhibits behavior like it is dropping injectors…goes into a lumpy strange out of rhytum idle. I swaped the injectors on the same banks to see if my plugs showed anything different. Pretty much the same results as before.
Gonna recheck my trigger points. I understand that the rubbing blocks should have a spacing of 23mm between the tips. They measure 24mm. Is this ok? These are the originals with 126,000 miles. What other checks can I make at home without fancy test equipment?
Bill |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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I forgot to mention the resistance values I have found on my injectors. It may be a problem. I measured at both the individual injectors and at the computer harness plug. Two injectors came in at 2.7 ohms and the other two at 3 ohms. Do I have problem injectors?
Bill |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| 2.4Ω is the spec. A little higher resistance shouldn't matter, as long as they spray a nice fog when actuated (3V nominal operating voltage). |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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Christmas came early this year. I found NOS never used trigger points from a guy 15 miles from me that answered my WTB Samba ad. Really hard to believe!
I installed them this afternoon. The engine just purrs. Warmup, continuous running, and shutdown to restart. It’s really hard to believe. I pulled the plugs and my sooty problems were gone. All showed a nice tan colored clean burning pattern. I am going to invest in a nice exhaust analyzer so I can dial the MPS in properly. Big lesson learned…dont try running on old hi mileage triggers. Took me a few weeks of hair pulling to figure that out! Finally dug myself out of that hole.
Bill
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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Moving on from the engine stuff now. Still got to get the interior done. I also have not yet installed the rear bumper.
Had a little fun today… with my wife  I have the typical nose high attitude. Sooo, I thought I would try adding weight and measure body heights.
The first photo is without any added weight. I measured from the ground to the high point of the wheel arch. Front 28 1/2”. Rear 24 3/4”.
The second photo is with my wife in the frunk. For the sake of science and understanding the type 4 my wife volunteered her weight at 160 lbs. I also had a 50 lbs weight placed with her for a total of 210 lbs. Front 26 1/2” Rear 25 1/4”.
It is amazing how much this weight affecrs these cars. I guess they were designed for luggage carrying ability.
Thanks to my dear wife for being such a good sport today! She is wonderful!
Bill
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Christmas came early this year. I found NOS never used trigger points from a guy 15 miles from me that answered my WTB Samba ad. Really hard to believe!
I installed them this afternoon. The engine just purrs. Warmup, continuous running, and shutdown to restart. It’s really hard to believe. I pulled the plugs and my sooty problems were gone. All showed a nice tan colored clean burning pattern. I am going to invest in a nice exhaust analyzer so I can dial the MPS in properly. Big lesson learned…dont try running on old hi mileage triggers. Took me a few weeks of hair pulling to figure that out! Finally dug myself out of that hole.
Bill
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Glad to hear this!...and I am still going to post an answer about adjusting them...because you can and SHOULD adjust your old set when you get time. New ones do not grow on trees and adjusted worn trigger sets can function identically well.
The key to that happening is that the trigger set you want to adjust cannot have been "tweaked" before (meaning its baseline fixed point positions need to be factory normal)...and it cannot have out of spec resistance.
Ray |
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The ADAC
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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Glad it worked out for ya!!
| Pepperbilly wrote: |
Christmas came early this year. I found NOS never used trigger points from a guy 15 miles from me that answered my WTB Samba ad. Really hard to believe!
I installed them this afternoon. The engine just purrs. Warmup, continuous running, and shutdown to restart. It’s really hard to believe. I pulled the plugs and my sooty problems were gone. All showed a nice tan colored clean burning pattern. I am going to invest in a nice exhaust analyzer so I can dial the MPS in properly. Big lesson learned…dont try running on old hi mileage triggers. Took me a few weeks of hair pulling to figure that out! Finally dug myself out of that hole.
Bill
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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I was trying to adjust my idle speed regulator according to the VW Troubleshooting Guide for my automatic. The book says the gap should be .5 to 1.0 mm. I can only get a gap at about 1.5 mm at the smallest and the adjustment is maxed out. I remember adjusting this thing years ago… also I remember when unplugging the vacuum hose at idle and in park or neutral the plunger would immediately strike the throttle and rev the engine wildly. I tried this and it would not do that. So, it is not reacting like it should, I guess. Maybe a leaking diaphram?
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
I was trying to adjust my idle speed regulator according to the VW Troubleshooting Guide for my automatic. The book says the gap should be .5 to 1.0 mm. I can only get a gap at about 1.5 mm at the smallest and the adjustment is maxed out. I remember adjusting this thing years ago… also I remember when unplugging the vacuum hose at idle and in park or neutral the plunger would immediately strike the throttle and rev the engine wildly. I tried this and it would not do that. So, it is not reacting like it should, I guess. Maybe a leaking diaphram?
Bill |
I have a link with some info about this part that may help. I will link it shortly so you do not have to search.
As for your post from Saturday regarding the weight in the front trunk ......yep! .....right about 200 to 250 lbs is what I found was required to just about get the front level with the rear.
The front being level with the rear....when all other front suspension items are in good shape and correct .....actually brings several significant benefits.
1. When the front end is level or even has a small amount of lower positive rake (front very slightly lower than rear)....the front castor angle is automatically/artificially increased.
This gives you slightly less wandering in cross winds and slightly less bump steering.
2. The properly distributed weight in the front end.....call it anywhere from 200 -300 lbs....compresses the front strut springs about 0.75" to just under or at 1.0". This also changes the valving position inside the stock struts....and helps to keep the rebound under control.
See.....the rebound valving was weak in the stock design. Compression valving was good....as long as you kept it under load. So you would hit a bump....like a small speed bump for example....and the Compression of the strut coming onto the bump was....nice....not harsh.
But as you came over the top of the bump....with the strut springs compressed.....the springs unload a little violently downward.
The problem was....not only were the valving orifices a little wide (and/or the valving springs a little weak)....on the rebound return side.....they were probably a little too large on the Compression circuit as well.
So when you hit the bump first.....the Compression circuit pumped excessive amounts of fluid to the top side of the strut piston as it smoothly burns off that compressive shock load.
This pressurized the top side of the piston a little....which can help it to push back downward faster on the rebound. Add that factor to the rebound orifices being slightly too big or the spring on the valve too weak.....and the strut rebounds too rapidly.
Now.....that being said.....if you are on a washboard road surface or say.....going across about 4-5 pairs of railroad tracks in a factor yard....the multiple rapid Compression strokes will "over pump" volume to the top side of the piston. It causes a "jacking downward" movement to the front suspension.
Eventually you end up with a short Compression stroke and lack of fluid so if you hit a hard bump somewhere in there....it can bottom out hard. Once back on smoother pavement it rapidly sorts itself out.
So.....with ballast weight in the trunk....starting the stroke about an inch shorter with a bit of pressure locking the valves slightly.....keeps better control so less fluid gets pumped to the topside so early in a rough road cycle.
Eventuall.....the process described above....if you drive a lot in cities with poor roads....eventually causes leakage at the top seal and loss of a bit of fluid. The rough road "jacking" syndrome then causes the top rebound circuit to run dry on multiple rebound making rebound very hard and noisey. This is very hard on the other strut parts like bushings, bearings and ball joints.
3. The steering turn in is improved. Less under and over steer....due to better castor angle and less floating movement to the front end.
This ballast because it keeps the front a little lower....and literally has a bit more weight....making front to rear weight distribution a little more equal.....also feels like it improves the tendency for the rear to lift on hard braking.
I do not think that the nose high attitude was really on purpose....100%. I think it was a combination of the times and what little they "knew" about strut suspension design at that point in time.
Yes.....they wanted to have enough spring and damping to control things when that huge trunk was full.....but they also needed to have a "soft" ride....because that was what was selling in places like the US.
The proper modern way would have been to use a larger diameter spring with higher capacity with the same starting/seated tension....start it lower/level....and set up the shock damping accordingly.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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I had to make a decision on wiring the fog lamps up front before I can glue the rest of the carpeting. Much easier and clean looking to run wiring at this point.
I decided to use the rear window defogger circuit. The heating element will never work again so what’s the point in leaving it in this state? My defogger switch now controls my bumper mounted fog lamps. All I did was disconnect the power wire for the window (which is a double wire that also goes to the diagnostic plug in the engine compartment) and run a new wire directly from the defogger relay to the fogs. This was really easy and works like a charm. This circuit is actually protected by 2 fuses and can handle the current…or so I hope. By the way, I have never really understood why this circuit has 2 fuses…#10 at the fuse panel and another feeding the relay under the seat.
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| Pepperbilly wrote: |
I had to make a decision on wiring the fog lamps up front before I can glue the rest of the carpeting. Much easier and clean looking to run wiring at this point.
I decided to use the rear window defogger circuit. The heating element will never work again so what’s the point in leaving it in this state? My defogger switch now controls my bumper mounted fog lamps. All I did was disconnect the power wire for the window (which is a double wire that also goes to the diagnostic plug in the engine compartment) and run a new wire directly from the defogger relay to the fogs. This was really easy and works like a charm. This circuit is actually protected by 2 fuses and can handle the current…or so I hope. By the way, I have never really understood why this circuit has 2 fuses…#10 at the fuse panel and another feeding the relay under the seat.
Bill |
Its a back burner project...but I have a way to repair the rear defroster. I will get to it at some point and post a thread. You can always come back to it.
Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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I came up with a solution for that damn fuse panel access. My wife said “use Velcro”. I went with it…
I also cut an access hole for the relays. Now I can replace relays without having to disturb the panel by moving it. I don’t fancy moving 50 year old wiring too much. This also allows me to peel the carpeting back if I need to remove the kick panel for any reason. Not sure why VW did not make this easier from the get go. I will glue the very deep end on the wheel bump towards the firewall.
I went ahead and glued the entire passenger side. I did have to slice a slit large enough to get the gas door release knob through the carpet. The pull knob still has tape on it to keep the contact cement off.
Bill |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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Nice!
Originally the hole for the gas flap pull knob had a black painted brass grommet crimped onto teh hole in the carpet. Ray |
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Nice!
Originally the hole for the gas flap pull knob had a black painted brass grommet crimped onto teh hole in the carpet. Ray |
Yeah, I had to cut that metal grommet off. Will have to fashion a small round seal or grommet type thing that is glued to the new carpet. Not a big deal.
Bill |
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whobba
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 871
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Pepperbilly
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017
Posts: 977
Location: Seattle, Wa
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Wagon progress update…getting closer! |
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Putting together the front seats today. I had to have the bottoms recovered and my upholsterer was able to make a really nice match with my original backs. He had to machine stitch the long runs and match them in spacing. The original fake “stitching” material is NLA. You have to look real close to see fake vs. the new stitch. I am very happy with it because I am always striving to maintain the original look. This was not easy but this guy is really good!
Comparing with the original bottom.
He lined it up real nice.
Bill |
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