Are Westys artificially overpriced?

[Diggy]

This isnt a complaint... I get it, Vanagons are awesome, there arent many other options in the US, I want one, Im willing to pay the asking price....so are you. Therefore, the value is real. We are all here to talk about Vanagon and westies but after my first post it feel like this is a boat. Its awesome to have but only if you have the time, money, and insanity to put up with it.

Some time ago when I was shopping for a 19' 0r 20' Toyota rv I struck up a conversation with a dealer. I asked him why I cant find something newer and still small to fit my nature. He said this: In the early 90's the US Gov't passed a tariff that more or less made it cost prohibited to import RVs. This was done to create jobs in the US. (Laugh) Seems logical reason for the lack of RVs and the overpriced nature of it. You cant find a small rv in the US after 1991 or 1992. While it seems in Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ, and Japan they have small RVs and RVing vans. Ive seen Toyata Hiaces 4x4, late 90's or early 00's for around the same price as an early 80's beater Westy. Again, not a complaint but a discussion point.

So are Vanagons/Westys artificially over priced?

http://www.zenautoworks.ca/Current%20Stock%20Units/Hiace%20Camper.htm

http://s1093.photobucket.com/user/algysautos/libra...amp;page=1

This one is 1997, popup camper, 4x4, appox 23k US. NOT 40k to 100k!

http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Hiace-1997/AGC-AD-13776419/?Cr=1&sdmvc=1


Merica! Where bigger and more luxurious is the only option!

[Jon_slider]

Political Rant Warning!

Yes, cars are boats. A hole in your wallet.

Yes, tariffs force Americans to pay more for foreign cars than they actually cost. This is supposed to increase the income of American car building laborers.

Paid for by the American consumer.

Ive never understood protectionism or tariffs.

Let me give you an example. Around 1890 USA imposed a Tariff on knives from Sheffield and Germany, supposedly to help american knife makers "compete".

So a knife that cost 5 cents in Germany, would enter the US at a cost of 50 cents, due to tariffs intended to support American knife makers, whose labor costs did not allow them to produce a 3 cent knife.

The 45 cent tariff went to the US Govt.

Then that 50 cent import knife would get wholesaled for a "fair profit" of 50% markup, which is only 33% profit on sale, so it sold for 75 cents, to companies like Sears.

Then Sears would make a "fair profit" of 100% markup, which is only a 50% profit margin on capital. The knife then would sell for $1.50

Did the American consumer really pay $1.45 more than the knife cost in Germany. Yes. Who got the extra money? The Govt, The Wholesaler, and the Retail Dealer.

Did any of the $1.45 go to people making knives in the US, no.

Was the $1.50 retail price "Artificial"?

What the $1.50 price support system did for the american knife building worker, was it gave them market price support to sell their knives for $1.50 retail, to "compete fairly" with German and British knives.

That meant that American made knives could be sold by the manufacturer, to a distributor, for $0.25 each. From that 25 cents, American knife labor got a "fair living wage".

We have the same scenario playing out today with Cars. American labor to build cars is so expensive compared to other places in the world, that our govt now puts a tariff on imports, in order to "help American jobs".

So the US consumer, pays the tariff, and the wholesale markup, and the retail markup. At which point US labor needs a pay raise, to cover the cost of govt, wholesale, and retail marketers. Little of the price actually goes to American workers.

Anything that has an import tariff, is Artificially priced higher than its actual cost, because Americans are trapped in an economic system that Artificially raises the cost of goods in order for the govt, the wholesaler, and the retailer to make a "fair living wage".

Then they tell you its to help American jobs. Can you spell Disinformation?

What was the question?
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[70coupyel]

Why are you comparing prices of vans in other parts of the world to what we only have acess here in the U.S.? Need to compare prices that are in the same market. Shopping for price is one thing but shopping for what a van can do is another.
If Vanagons are out of your budget maybe a plan "B" might be an option?
Supply and demand sets the price. Pay to play.
_________________

[Jon_slider]

[kamzcab86]

[Diggy]

[Diggy]

[1vw4x4]

What pushes up prices is a bad consumer. I've seen a vanagon in my
area sell way over priced. It had a ton of things wrong. I was ask to
check it out for someone, and recommended they say away. IT sells.
The new owner does more damage with a ton of aftermarket parts and
sells it, without repair of any real problems. The second owner
contacts me and after 15minutes put it back on the market for more than
he payed. It sells again without any repairs, all this time accumulating
less than 1000 miles. The third owner has the top end engine rebuilt.
An absolute terrible job. He brings it to my place and I could not believe
how bad things can get and still run down the road. A few weeks ago
the people who had ask me to check this vehicle out originally contacted me stating
they were going to buy it becasue the repairs were all fixed. I could have fainted.
I explain that I had just look at this van again and it was not where near road
worthy. Let see who the next sucker is with this vanagon....

[Diggy]

[danfromsyr]

sounds like the 'popular' bar fly/waitress/cheerleader/you know the type.. more damage each time and seems to still find a new suger daddy easily enough.

[j_dirge]

[Syncro Jael]

There was nothing "artificial" about what I spent on my Syncro Westfalia. but I have never been happier.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[ThankYouJerry]

Take an "affordable" Westy, say $10k in running condition... Now bring it up to safe and reliable driving condition. You have now most likely just dumped another $10-20k into this van assuming you paid to have the work performed for you. What would you want to sell it for now? Regardless, you won't remotely see your money back that you just spent. And now there is yet another "expensive" Vanagon on the market?

Sage advice..."buy the best Vanagon you can afford". When you do this successfully, you will save huge money in the long run vs. trying to build one up to the same level from a lesser beginning point. Another saying around here... "A cheap Vanagon may be the most expensive Vanagon you will ever buy."
_________________
1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD

[debbiej]

interesting conversation!
It is debatable that there are no more "small RVs being made" I do agree that there is a much larger selection in other countrys. I too wish we had some of those options available to us in the US. But I enjoy searching for unusual new and vintage RVs via the internet market, and there are the newer class b and b+ van style RVs. I wouldn't consider them to be a reasonably priced small RV. I've also seen some very nice 18-19 ft. class Cs, again very pricey! I think westfalias in good condition are sought after because they are such a good compromise, and since they are no longer being made, can command a good price.

we have an 86 toyota sunrader and an 84 westalia. westy has a 2.1 from an 86. I bought the westy for $5000 and have put at least that much or more into it. But it is dependable and in great shape. the sunrader is a recent purchase, and I bought it because it was such a steal at $3600. It didn't need much to drive it home from California to New Mexico. those older toyotas have a pretty wide price range and the condition can really vary. they also have a bit of a following, but not as into them as vw folks are.

I feel sort of divided by the two, the westy is more fun and economical, the sunrader more convenient once we get there.

It seems to me that a solid rust free westfalia is going to hold it's value. I feel like I'd be able to do a whole lot of work to that westfalia before it became as costly as, say, a newer chinook on a ford chassis with a v10. both in price and cost to operate. Or a newer roadtrek or pleasureway van.

my brother in law is very mechanical and they have a sprinter. he hates the cost of maintenance, it is NOT a do it yourself kind of vehicle.

I don't know how many $25,000 westfalias really sell, but I'd think $12,000-$15,000 is reasonable for a good one, and that is also a reasonable price in the small RV market.

[70coupyel]

[madspaniard]

[ultra_rnr]

Also consider the Syncro, I am not sure there is another small RV that can go as many places that a well built Syncro can go. Even if you look at bigger rigs, none of them are as nimble or trail worthy that I know of. Step up to a 4x4 ford van or similar and all of a sudden you have a much bigger rig out on the trails. The Syncro Westy is a pretty unique vehicle, a lot of people have realized that, and there-in lies the price.

[singler3360]

[Jake de Villiers]

[Jake de Villiers]

Here's some real world prices of these vans in Vancouver:
http://www.silkroadautos.com/toyota/toyota-list.htm

And here's a 660CC "truck" (in Japan still) for only $8,000!
http://www.zenautoworks.ca/Current%20Stock%20Units/Hijet.htm

Cute? Heck, yes! Useful? Not for me.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
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