FNG with my first Baja

[Beau M]

Hello all

I've been wrenching for 20+ years and recently bought my first air cooled VW, a 71 beetle. Its got the baja fiberglass fenders etc, it was in the process of being converted to a 13b rotary when I bought it.

It's definitely a project vehicle and many months away from being on the road. I bought the bug with no engine, but have since acquired two, both in pretty rough shape. I've torn down one and it had rust on the con rods, the other I drained the oil and there was so much sand it was chunky.

I'm vacillating daily on sticking with the air cooled or do a subie swap. I'm no stranger to engine swaps, I put an LS in my 98 Tahoe and have a 68 Mustang with a Toyota 2JZ. The only real two downsides I see with the subie motor are radiator placement and oil pan clearance, even with the shortened ones. If I stay VW it will probably end up being more $$$ and I'll have less HP.

I'm not even sure what I'm getting at here. A couple ???s

Is the subie pan clearance a huge issue off-road? The bug will mostly be seeing logging roads and trails in WA, occasional sand.

I just don't know what to do. With my current junk it most likely involves a machine shop and a bunch of new parts. With a subie engine I can get a low mileage one with a warranty and plop it in. Sure I need the adapter and wire harness and all that, but the needed parts for the VW add up real fast.

Anyway, here's the car.

Engine #1 I tore down, must have had a lot of moisture

Engine #2 with the gritty sludge oil. This is as far as I've gotten.

[sailtexas186548]

In the last year I have done an ecotec and an air cooled from a similar starting point. Any efi watercooled swap is gonna cost ~3500 unless you cut a bunch of corners, and will be pushing a type 1 trans hard. An Air cooled engine is probably 2500-3500 just for the engine depending on how much you have to buy new, but you won’t have to spend the $ on adapters, electric fuel pump, radiator set up, fans, ecu/wiring, etc.

air cooled power has a very different, better vibe IMO and it more fun to drive in a Stockish car.

That is a cool Baja

EDIT: Looks like a three rib bus trans in there. Makes a water cooled engine a little more appealing. I would ride in a 2+ Liter air cooled car before you go away from air cooled
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it's more fun loud and dirty

[Beau M]

Thanks for the advice!

Yup it has a bus trans but I don’t know much about it. It has a new fuel tank up front and an EFI fuel pump with new feed / return lines (intended for the 13g).

I’m not in a huge hurry so have time to do more research but this is a much harder decision than expected.

[oprn]

A water pumper swap will give you more HP at a far lower cost engine wise but there are trade offs. There will be a 100 pound or more weight penalty, wiring, rad placement and plumbing are going to be a challenge. I would also expect the resale value of the car to go down. Another thing to consider and you are not telling us yet is with a full bodied car if you will be needing a heating/defrost system. A swap is going to complicate that. In some parts of the country it is a requirement to make the car street legal.

If you are not a HP freak, quite frankly I would finish the engine teardowns, clean both up and measure the critical bits with the goal in mind to re-use as much stock parts as possible. Two reasons, first off is that in many cases the stock parts from VW are of better quality and they FIT! The second is that if you are not power hungry a stock 1600 DP (built carefully with attention to detail) with it's light weight and that Bus transaxle will surprise you both on and off the road.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Beau M]

All good points. There's no need for heater / defrost here, but I think that would be fairly easy to set up with the subie motor.

As far as the 100lb weight penalty, my fat butt is already a there

I agree. I'll tear the other down and clean them up. I know if I go VW I'll need pistons / jugs / heads, which are around $600 for the set. Not terrible. But I can see how the other parts can nickel and dime you.

[Mal evolent]

go here. scroll down to the blue bars beneath the distributor. read and heed.

https://www.aircooled.net/

start here: https://www.aircooled.net/vw-performance-engines/
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73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats

Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index

[cbeck]

Lot of builds on here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=621938&highlight=
Or if you have eff you money

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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[Beau M]

[Wulfthang]

I used to own a Baja many years ago with a fairly hot VW engine. Now I have a Rail with a fairly hot Ford V6 water cooled engine in it. The difference is incredible. I'll never go back to air cooled!

My engine is a a 2.8 Cologne and it's old school heavy iron. I had the engine and I had the adapter kit so it was a no brainer to put it in my rail. Look around and maybe pick up an older engine for a lot less money. You could probably take your choice of several different engines, with or without computer systems. I don't know where you'd mount the radiator though. I put mine on my rail up on her back. If you do decide to go water cooled, get the biggest radiator that you can fit!

[cbeck]

Shop talk forum has a conversion perversion thread. Lots of ideas there also.

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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[Beau M]

Why is this decision so hard???

Last night I "decided" I'm going air cooled after watching a few rebuild videos. Then I took stock of what I have, and did some quick guestimating, an it will cost at least $1000 for me to get a mostly stock engine up and running.

I can buy an entire subaru legacy for that.

Sure I will still need the adapter and a billion other parts, but tossing a grand into an air cooled only to pull it out due to disappointment seems bad.

I am no stranger to swaps or "while I'm at it" project scope creep. Here's my 68 Mustang with a 2JZ. I'm also no stranger to EFI in an old car and all the "fun" that comes with it.

[Mike Fisher]

You could have an air cooled engine running in 1 week, but water cooled will be 1 year!
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[oprn]

Your mind was made up before you started this thread. You are a swap guy so - have at it and enjoy!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Aerindel]

I wish I knew how to swap engines....I have four subaru engines just sitting on shelves, but I have no idea how to make them run without putting them in a subaru. One of them, a subi 1.8 I think would be paricularly good in a buggy.

My VW engine though, I could get that running on an engine stand in about ten minutes.
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Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046

[Blue Coyote]

Welcome to the Baja world - also a first timer. What started as a $400 Gambler and has since gotten a ‘bit out of hand’. Been down the “what engine” road - started with a 1600 and when that gave up went to a 2.0. Also been down the used engine and what’s inside - it’s always water. Car is light enough it has plenty of power. And the nice part is that any air cooled motor will bolt up. Have plenty of other big HP and LT rides, but the bug is just stupid fun to drive - simple, requires some skill to keep alive.
And love that wing (seriously- mine needs a wing…

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1969 Gambugly- HooptieX/ GORRA / Gambler500 pile of parts.

[sailtexas186548]

[Beau M]

[pickuptrucker]

I'm glad you named your mustang abomination lol. I live in Washington
Also, whichever engine you choose I'll rip up some logging rosds with you! My bug is totally stock right now, still trying to decide exactly what to do with it

[cbeck]

The sacrilege, the only way to make it right is to put the mustang motor in the beetle.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[no1clyde]

I used a 1992 Subaru Legacy motor and computer in my Baja

Just buy a old Legacy and use as much as you can from it.

Ed