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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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 Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Could 66 or whatever turn signal switch fit on my 1960 beetle steering column to have High Low Beam HeadLight control on the turn signal switch?
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mukluk
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Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Yes.
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Maybe something like this? Beetle/Ghia Switch Turn Signal Lever, 66-67 Price: $99.50 then figure something out for a headlight relay or use a couple of Power MOSFET's and come up with a circuit, probably could leave the foot switch.
Does anyone know how the Turn signal High Lo beam switch functions. Is it bi-stable? or just a single momentary? I think the one on the 71 bus had a single momentary contact operation and the dimmer relay was double pole bi-stable latch meaning it alternated between Hi and Lo each time it was activated.
Ok Found this:
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Last edited by Danwvw on Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pops67Beetle
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Joined: January 03, 2021
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Location: Queens, NY
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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The dimmer switch on the turn signal is a momentary ground.
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Yeah, that does not lend itself well to solid state, Probably just have to get the 6 volt relay the beetles had.
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MrGoodtunes
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Joined: May 14, 2012
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Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| Pops67Beetle wrote: |
| The dimmer switch on the turn signal is a momentary ground. |
... which toggles the bi-stable dimmer relay. Next time you pull on the headlights switch, you will be on which ever beam (high or low) you had on when you last push'd in the headlights switch. Well, at least, that's how mine works on my buggy which got its turn signal switch, dimmer relay, and I traced and copied the circuitry from a 1967 Beetle donor car. |
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mukluk
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Joined: October 18, 2012
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Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Yep, the turn signal stalk dimmer switch is a very simple momentary contact switch used to control the dimmer relay which is a common latching relay. Nothing fancy is needed, just wire up the circuit as shown in the diagram. You should be able to reuse the stock '60 headlight/dimmer wiring once you disconnect the foot switch and route the wires back up into the trunk.
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EVfun
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Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Wait, the 1960 turn signal switch is an older 6 wire switch. The later Bugs with the turn signal mounted Hi/Lo function had a different turn signal switch with a button built into the back of it for the headlight relay.
Can you install the '66-'67 hi/lo switch onto the back of an old 6-wire '60-'61 turn signal switch? They look the same from the front in the car, but not inside!
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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MrGoodtunes
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| ... 1960 turn signal switch is an older 6 wire switch ... |
Good point. The 6-wire switch is required due to brake light sharing the same bulb filament as used for turn signal; as opposed to '66-7 tail lights having separate bulbs. You probably would not want to "update" to the later tail lights, 'cuz those little snowflakes are so cute, but that'd work with the 3-wire '66-7 turn signal switch (not counting wire for dimmer). The next easiest way to go would probably be to graft the end of a '66-7 turn signal stalk onto a 6-wire turn signal switch's broken nub of a stalk. My own '67 stalk broke. I fiberglass'd it back together, shorter, to better match my sorta small steering wheel:
Pic taken looking down thru windshield. You can see the wires for dimmer switch running outside of the fiberglass bump because the idiot doing the job (me) forgot to lay in wires before glassing the stalk back together. |
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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I think this circuit would make the 1966 Turn Signal Switch with the Headlight Dimmer Switch in it work on the 1960 Beetle.
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| EVfun wrote: |
Wait, the 1960 turn signal switch is an older 6 wire switch. The later Bugs with the turn signal mounted Hi/Lo function had a different turn signal switch with a button built into the back of it for the headlight relay.
Can you install the '66-'67 hi/lo switch onto the back of an old 6-wire '60-'61 turn signal switch? They look the same from the front in the car, but not inside! |
This would be the most simple solution I agree. Mine is broken and fiber glued or (something strong) back together but intermittently non-operative and requires a cable message.
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mukluk
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Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| I think this circuit would make the 1966 Turn Signal Switch with the Headlight Dimmer Switch in it work on the 1960 Beetle. |
Yep, looks good.
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KTPhil 
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Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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As of ‘65, maybe earlier, the stalk had the holes, peg, and threaded hole such that the button/spring from ‘66-up could be retrofitted easily. I did it on my ‘65. I bought a broken arm (a common fault) cheap and harvested the button hardware and wire.
So it may not matter how many wires are in the switch if the arm itself is the same. |
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EVfun
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
I think this circuit would make the 1966 Turn Signal Switch with the Headlight Dimmer Switch in it work on the 1960 Beetle.
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I think you would need a multi farad capacitor to hold the relay on for the time needed. A 555 timer circuit could likely be used to hold power to the relay for X time after the turn signal switch input ended.
This is what I use to combine brake lights and turn signals on my buggy (like '61 down Bugs) and combine front parking lights and turn signals up front into a single bulb. If you don't want to combine the front lights just don't connect the parking light power.
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| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:43 am Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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I was looking at a "TE CONNECTIVITY P&B Relay, 1 Form C, SPDT, 6V DC - Automotive Bracket" Relay on Amazon but they don't give the coil resistance. But if it were 100 ohms then it likely would wind up being a 2500uf with 0.25 seconds RC, cap but if 1000 ohms the cap would only be 250uf.
I like the idea of having the front turn signals also function as park lights.
I think our circuits are the same.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
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Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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Go up to the top right and left click on the "Technical" button there. On the next webpage scroll down to the "Technical Instruction Manuals", in that is the "Technical Bulletins" left click on that. Next page left click on the "Electrical" section and on that page scroll down to the "Headlight Flasher". Shows how to install such with period correct relays for 1960. Lots of other really cool VW accessories and how to install them. Plus there is a ton of other need to know info in the Technical section Enjoy!
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Danwvw
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EVfun
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
I was looking at a "TE CONNECTIVITY P&B Relay, 1 Form C, SPDT, 6V DC - Automotive Bracket" Relay on Amazon but they don't give the coil resistance. But if it were 100 ohms then it likely would wind up being a 2500uf with 0.25 seconds RC, cap but if 1000 ohms the cap would only be 250uf.
I like the idea of having the front turn signals also function as park lights.
I think our circuits are the same. |
It should likely be built for about a 0.5 second hold time because turn signal flash rate is 60 to 120 per minute. Most 6 volt automotive type relays have a 20 to 30 ohm coil. That sends the requirement up to about 25,000uf. Since a discharged capacitor looks like a dead short it would be a bit hard on the turn signal switch and would delay the relay turn on too.
If you notice, the circuit I have drawn has the turn signal switch receive a constant hot so it can just power the relays. The flasher output hooks to all the normally open contacts. The brake lights and/or parking lights hook up to 2 normally open contacts. The switching contacts are for the 4 turn signal bulbs. I first used this in the '80's on an old Bug with a later turn signal switch but snowflake tail lights and using the parking light in front of the headlight as the turn signal (Cal-Look.) My current buggy has a version of this on a circuit board.
The headlight flasher bulletin posted by Eric&Barb is interesting as it shows the push button switch later used for the headlight dimmer relay being installed on an older turn signal switch (at least 1 of the pictures is of a '60 Bug.)
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24765
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1960 Beetle Turn Signals with High Low Beam Switch |
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| EVfun wrote: |
The headlight flasher bulletin posted by Eric&Barb is interesting as it shows the push button switch later used for the headlight dimmer relay being installed on an older turn signal switch (at least 1 of the pictures is of a '60 Bug.) |
Also first page of that bulletin is print date coded "12-59" down on the left side.
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