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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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 Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:22 pm Post subject: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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I think I know the answer, but bear with me. Have finally started on the engine as I wait for my new dual MC.
So, I have discovered  that I have an early (Snap rings version) Brosol Type 3 fuel pump rather than the Pierburg which I thought it was. It is the same as the ones ISP sells used for Type 3.
My choices are:
Get a replacement Type 3 Pierburg
Overhaul the Brosol
Install the 6 volt electric fuel pump I had stashed long ago. (Back then, 80s, it put out a consistent 3 PSI) It still worked when I tested it today. But I did not do a pressure test.
For now, I plan to install the electric pump, but should I repair or replace the Brosol and then install the replacement mechanical pump.
Thanks in advance
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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If you're asking the question, can we assume your current pump isn't working?
You will get varying opinions on this.
Mechanical pumps are the simpler approach and do not care whether the car is 6 or 12 volt. Whether to rebuild the Brosol or replace with the ISP may depend on the availability of a rebuild kit for the Brosol.
An electric pump mounted under the fuel tank is not subject to vapor lock and can quickly refill the carburetor bowl(s) if it/they are empty. It also can be used to empty the tank if necessary. And you already have a 6 volt pump. Wire sensibly.
Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
If you're asking the question, can we assume your current pump isn't working?
...
An electric pump mounted under the fuel tank is not subject to vapor lock and can quickly refill the carburetor bowl(s) if it/they are empty. It also can be used to empty the tank if necessary. And you already have a 6 volt pump. Wire sensibly.
Max |
The original plan/reason for overhauling the fuel pump was the gallon plus of shellacked gas in the fuel tank. I had already purchased a pierburg Type 3 overhaul kit as I thought the pump until I removed it looked like a pierburg without the plastic top hat.
I went ahead and disassembled the Brosol, and it looks like all the overhaul parts would fit. The original lower Brosol diaphragm looked weak, and looked similar to what it would look like with shellac. The small filter was almost fully coated with the varnish.
The springs look identical and same length. My concern is whether I might get a leak using the Pierburg kit on the Brosol.
My plan on the Electric pump install is to do a fused inertia switch to Pos. from the regulator, then place the pump in the space between engine wall and rear fuel outlet from the frame.
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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electric pumps are pushers, it should be under the tank in front.
the EFI pumps are mounted to the front beam
| Quote: |
| then place the pump in the space between engine wall and rear fuel outlet from the frame. |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
electric pumps are pushers, it should be under the tank in front.
the EFI pumps are mounted to the front beam
| Quote: |
| then place the pump in the space between engine wall and rear fuel outlet from the frame. |
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Of course you are right, in my desire to place the inertia switch under the back seat, made me forget the obvious. The original location for that pump was under the back seat and gravity fed to the pump with the engine in front.
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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For the sake of ideas - here's what I did with my electric pump:
The first picture shows the test fit with a 42S pump. I cut out a plate that fits in the center space in the front beam, painted it with high zinc rattle can, bought rubber trim, cut two holes in the bracket and mounted it all together with rubber isolators, fat washers and lock nuts. It is super quiet with zero vibration noise.
I wound up installing a Carter pump because I liked the fit better - modified the bracket to hold the pump better. Nothing rubs, no noise.
I'm using a Malpassi Filter King between the outlet from the rear of the pan to the engine tin - it's a filter and fuel pressure regulator in one unit. It also helps keep the fuel line out of the way of adjusting the clutch cable.
Last edited by ataraxia on Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Max Welton
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Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 474
Location: KS
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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I like both of your setups. I was planning to use pieces of foam water pipe insulation as my vibration reduction, but not in a Tennis ball can (I like the idea though). Then clamp to the beam with six inch hose clamps. The idea of putting the pump on a base between the two torsion beams does have a lot of appeal.
The idea of using a Malpassi is great. I had not even considered that.
I had been thinking of then running the fuel through the Brosol without functioning diaphrams, but the idea of that gives me pause. Even though it would look more original, I see all sort of secondary issues.
Just finished the overhauls of the two 32 PDSITs, I am always amazed at the simplicity of the early Solexes. They remind me of the carb I had on my Studebaker.
Now I just need to source return springs. Both had been pulled by P.O. and likely give uneven return. Does the return Spring for the Side draft (311129769A) work?
_________________
Ossipon
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
I like both of your setups. I was planning to use pieces of foam water pipe insulation as my vibration reduction, but not in a Tennis ball can (I like the idea though). Then clamp to the beam with six inch hose clamps. The idea of putting the pump on a base between the two torsion beams does have a lot of appeal.
The idea of using a Malpassi is great. I had not even considered that.
I had been thinking of then running the fuel through the Brosol without functioning diaphrams, but the idea of that gives me pause. Even though it would look more original, I see all sort of secondary issues.
Just finished the overhauls of the two 32 PDSITs, I am always amazed at the simplicity of the early Solexes. They remind me of the carb I had on my Studebaker.
Now I just need to source return springs. Both had been pulled by P.O. and likely give uneven return. Does the return Spring for the Side draft (311129769A) work? |
I wanted to replicate as stock an appearance as possible - makes it easier to service and find leaks should they appear.
I wouldn't bother with running the fuel through a mechanical fuel pump carcass for looks - you'd be adding a lot of potential leak points for nothing other than appearances. Keep it simple.
Back when I had a simpler set up - I used Bert's springs - expensive but they work perfectly:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1754801 |
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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I need to replace the fuel pump in my Notch, too. The current pump gets LOUD when almost empty. (Probably why the PO didn’t need a fuel gauge.  )
I’ve got the 42S in my Square, and have been very happy with it.
Is the Carter a “better” pump, or just more appearance correct?
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Everything known to man has been written.
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Max Welton
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Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Sanity Check - Fuel Pump- Repair, replace or Electric |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
I need to replace the fuel pump in my Notch, too. The current pump gets LOUD when almost empty. (Probably why the PO didn’t need a fuel gauge. )
I’ve got the 42S in my Square, and have been very happy with it.
Is the Carter a “better” pump, or just more appearance correct? |
It's neither - the Carter style just fit better on mine with the way I ran the fuel line so it didn't rub on the tie rod. |
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