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help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap.SOLVED
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jberger
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

I'd also add that Reinzosil, Dirko and Yamabond are all equally excellent sealants. Not sure why anyone would throw a tube in the trash.. last time I bought a gasket set it was not cheap.. Just purpose bought a tube of Reinzosil xxy? for my 2.0 TSI crank seal project. Not losing sleep over it.

J
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Mckinleyvillian
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

well, pulled the head off this afternoon. came right off. almost too easily.

fire rings were NOT mangled. assuming they would have been destroyed if not seated properly during installation.

Outside someone pouring water/coolant into the oil, now that fire rings aren't ruined, I have no idea.

What are some other reasons this could have happened?

There were no leaks on old head. could I have reconnected a thermostat/heating/coolant hose improperly?
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Robw_z
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

Even if your fire rings were the issue, that does not explain water in the oil.

If the O-rings at the base of the cylinder jugs were correctly seated/good condition, all I can think is you have an internally cracked head.

Water can only find its way into the oil through the base of the cylinder jugs, or internally in the head.

Also what kind of torque wrench did you use to torque the head? As long as it wasn't a "click type" you should be OK.

-Rob
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

You need to understand how these engines are built.

At it's very core is the engine case. Crankshaft, camshaft, connecting rods, distributor drive, flywheel, etc.

This case, though redesigned over the years is basically the same case VW has made since 1960 when they left the old 25hp design that Porsche designed and moved the fuel pump on top of the case and redesigned the lifters.

For the WBXer they added water cooling to the cylinders and heads.
Where air used to circulate around the finned cylinders, water now circulates.
They also incorporated water passages in the heads.

The cylinders are individual removeable cylinders. To keep the engine oil in the case and water out, they rely on one single black rubber oring at the base of the cylinder where it enters the case. On Air Cooled units this used to be a paper gasket.

When you remove the WBX head, the top of the cylinders often stick in the head and pull away from the case breaking that seal that’s keeps oil in the case and water out.

If you don't clean this seal and renew the Oring, you will most likely have leaks.

You need to pull the cylinders off the pistons to do this.

This reseal task greatly complicates the scale of needed work.

But.......I'm afraid that you need to go down that rabbit hole.

The possibility exists that a loose head nut in the area of the rocker arms could Introduce water, but you would have noticed loose/non-sealing nuts as you removed the head.
I usually run a tap down the studs and a die inside the nuts to clean them up.
If they are dirty and gunked up, no real tightness of the nuts will happen despite proper torque readings being observed.

Dave
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

Does your engine have an oil cooler? That’s a good place for oil and coolant to mix. Don’t always assume that the last thing you worked on is the current problem.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

wcdennis wrote:
Does your engine have an oil cooler? That’s a good place for oil and coolant to mix. Don’t always assume that the last thing you worked on is the current problem.


One of the first questions asked.
1.9 no oil cooler.
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
wcdennis wrote:
Does your engine have an oil cooler? That’s a good place for oil and coolant to mix. Don’t always assume that the last thing you worked on is the current problem.


One of the first questions asked.
1.9 no oil cooler.

I apologize. I totally missed that and I do try to read the full thread before jumping in. Embarassed
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MayorMcCheese
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Mckinleyvillian
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

thank you, everyone.

it's looking like a success after we reinstalled head with new water jacket, fire ring, green gaskets.

lessons were learned in this venture. run tap and die on head studs/bolts and nuts!!!!

what it's looking like happened was that the head wasn't torqued properly. not by a long shot. that nut turn back after torquing I had mentioned was definitely due to some incredibly crusty threads.

This time we used TWO different torque wrenches and spent over an hour retorqing those head nuts.

it's running well. no water/coolant in oil, and from what I can see, no oil in water. clean dipstick.

now that I've been party to removing a head and reinstalling 3x, removing and installing who exhaust 3x, it's all feeling a bit more comfortable.

Again, thanks for your help!
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

Mckinleyvillian wrote:
thank you, everyone.

it's looking like a success after we reinstalled head with new water jacket, fire ring, green gaskets.

lessons were learned in this venture. run tap and die on head studs/bolts and nuts!!!!

what it's looking like happened was that the head wasn't torqued properly. not by a long shot. that nut turn back after torquing I had mentioned was definitely due to some incredibly crusty threads.

This time we used TWO different torque wrenches and spent over an hour retorqing those head nuts.

it's running well. no water/coolant in oil, and from what I can see, no oil in water. clean dipstick.

now that I've been party to removing a head and reinstalling 3x, removing and installing who exhaust 3x, it's all feeling a bit more comfortable.

Again, thanks for your help!
Dancing Dancing Dancing
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. Reply with quote

MayorMcCheese wrote:
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NICE picture.... Cool
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