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jberger Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 2476
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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I'd also add that Reinzosil, Dirko and Yamabond are all equally excellent sealants. Not sure why anyone would throw a tube in the trash.. last time I bought a gasket set it was not cheap.. Just purpose bought a tube of Reinzosil xxy? for my 2.0 TSI crank seal project. Not losing sleep over it.
J |
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Mckinleyvillian Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 504 Location: Macktown, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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well, pulled the head off this afternoon. came right off. almost too easily.
fire rings were NOT mangled. assuming they would have been destroyed if not seated properly during installation.
Outside someone pouring water/coolant into the oil, now that fire rings aren't ruined, I have no idea.
What are some other reasons this could have happened?
There were no leaks on old head. could I have reconnected a thermostat/heating/coolant hose improperly? _________________ so many roads i know
all i want is one to take me home
85 Vanagon GL 1.9 stick |
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Robw_z Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2007 Posts: 983
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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Even if your fire rings were the issue, that does not explain water in the oil.
If the O-rings at the base of the cylinder jugs were correctly seated/good condition, all I can think is you have an internally cracked head.
Water can only find its way into the oil through the base of the cylinder jugs, or internally in the head.
Also what kind of torque wrench did you use to torque the head? As long as it wasn't a "click type" you should be OK.
-Rob |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:46 am Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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You need to understand how these engines are built.
At it's very core is the engine case. Crankshaft, camshaft, connecting rods, distributor drive, flywheel, etc.
This case, though redesigned over the years is basically the same case VW has made since 1960 when they left the old 25hp design that Porsche designed and moved the fuel pump on top of the case and redesigned the lifters.
For the WBXer they added water cooling to the cylinders and heads.
Where air used to circulate around the finned cylinders, water now circulates.
They also incorporated water passages in the heads.
The cylinders are individual removeable cylinders. To keep the engine oil in the case and water out, they rely on one single black rubber oring at the base of the cylinder where it enters the case. On Air Cooled units this used to be a paper gasket.
When you remove the WBX head, the top of the cylinders often stick in the head and pull away from the case breaking that seal that’s keeps oil in the case and water out.
If you don't clean this seal and renew the Oring, you will most likely have leaks.
You need to pull the cylinders off the pistons to do this.
This reseal task greatly complicates the scale of needed work.
But.......I'm afraid that you need to go down that rabbit hole.
The possibility exists that a loose head nut in the area of the rocker arms could Introduce water, but you would have noticed loose/non-sealing nuts as you removed the head.
I usually run a tap down the studs and a die inside the nuts to clean them up.
If they are dirty and gunked up, no real tightness of the nuts will happen despite proper torque readings being observed.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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wcdennis Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Winston-Salem NC
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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Does your engine have an oil cooler? That’s a good place for oil and coolant to mix. Don’t always assume that the last thing you worked on is the current problem. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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wcdennis Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Winston-Salem NC
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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djkeev wrote: |
wcdennis wrote: |
Does your engine have an oil cooler? That’s a good place for oil and coolant to mix. Don’t always assume that the last thing you worked on is the current problem. |
One of the first questions asked.
1.9 no oil cooler. |
I apologize. I totally missed that and I do try to read the full thread before jumping in. |
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MayorMcCheese Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2009 Posts: 652 Location: Lancaster PA
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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Mckinleyvillian Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2021 Posts: 504 Location: Macktown, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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thank you, everyone.
it's looking like a success after we reinstalled head with new water jacket, fire ring, green gaskets.
lessons were learned in this venture. run tap and die on head studs/bolts and nuts!!!!
what it's looking like happened was that the head wasn't torqued properly. not by a long shot. that nut turn back after torquing I had mentioned was definitely due to some incredibly crusty threads.
This time we used TWO different torque wrenches and spent over an hour retorqing those head nuts.
it's running well. no water/coolant in oil, and from what I can see, no oil in water. clean dipstick.
now that I've been party to removing a head and reinstalling 3x, removing and installing who exhaust 3x, it's all feeling a bit more comfortable.
Again, thanks for your help! _________________ so many roads i know
all i want is one to take me home
85 Vanagon GL 1.9 stick |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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Mckinleyvillian wrote: |
thank you, everyone.
it's looking like a success after we reinstalled head with new water jacket, fire ring, green gaskets.
lessons were learned in this venture. run tap and die on head studs/bolts and nuts!!!!
what it's looking like happened was that the head wasn't torqued properly. not by a long shot. that nut turn back after torquing I had mentioned was definitely due to some incredibly crusty threads.
This time we used TWO different torque wrenches and spent over an hour retorqing those head nuts.
it's running well. no water/coolant in oil, and from what I can see, no oil in water. clean dipstick.
now that I've been party to removing a head and reinstalling 3x, removing and installing who exhaust 3x, it's all feeling a bit more comfortable.
Again, thanks for your help! |
_________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: Re: help! INSTANT failure. water in oil after head swap. |
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NICE picture.... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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