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jhingen
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2020
Posts: 93
Location: TEXAS
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 Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:15 am Post subject: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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| I have a new heads with valves, Scat C25 Cam along with new SCAT lube a lob lifters in my Type 4 Engine. Keeping the stock rockers/adjusters can I use the same removed pushrods or do I need to do the valve geometry and new rods to adjust? Thanks in advance for the input. |
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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| If your cams base circle size is same as stock your pushrods should be fine. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21518
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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| jhingen wrote: |
| I have a new heads with valves, Scat C25 Cam along with new SCAT lube a lob lifters in my Type 4 Engine. Keeping the stock rockers/adjusters can I use the same removed pushrods or do I need to do the valve geometry and new rods to adjust? Thanks in advance for the input. |
You NEED to at least check geometry. The lifters and cams now are different enough that there will be changes at least half the time. Also the C25 is not,a stock cam so even more possibility.
Which type 4 is this? The 66mm 1.7L/1.8L crank or the 71mm 2.0L crank?
I have found that the 66mm crank engines are a little more susceptible to geometry change with an aftermarket cam change.
Also.....do yourself a favor and use solid rocker spacers. IIRC....they came from factory on 1.8s and 2.0 with hydro lifters.....and are a rock solid mod on all type 4. With the facyory 1.25 and 1.3 lift ratios.....a lot of the slop, noise, wear and geometry issuea come from the rockers rattling sideways on the shaft.
Even more so with after market, higher lift cams.
You can get solid spacer kits from AC.net and the type 4 store. While you are at it....ask them for a spare stock pushrod so you can make an adjustable checking pushrod to check geometry.
Yes.....the odds are good that you can use your stock pushrods.....but they are jist as good that you cant. With a new cam and lifters.....its 50/50.
Avoid rocker stand shims all you can. Avoid lashcaps. Use hardened valve stems.
Next great mod....swivel foot adjusters. They are not a crutch for setting up geometry....but they CAN paper over small geometry issues. Ray |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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Like Ray said, you'll want to at least check.
An easy checking method is detailed in the Cheap Junk build in my sig.
On a mild build like yours I'd vote for solid spacers and a set of those cheap swivel feet from CB.
You can harvest the spacers form a hydro lifter bus or aircooled Vanagon if you don't want to spend the $19.30 for the kit. 
https://lnengineering.com/type-4-store/type4store-products/valvetrain/rocker-spacer-kit.html
_________________
Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21518
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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Jeez....they are that cheap now? Best bang for a $20 dollar bill I can think of. Not even wortb the gas and phone time to find factory ones. Ray |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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[quote="Clatter"]Like Ray said, you'll want to at least check.
An easy checking method is detailed in the Cheap Junk build in my sig.
On a mild build like yours I'd vote for solid spacers and a set of those cheap swivel feet from CB.
Before you order the cheap swivel feet adjusters ,check the size of the adjusters , 1700cc rockers have the same 8mm adjusters as a type 1 , 1800 and 2000 had 10mm adjusters . Although Jorge from EMW in California did tell me that some 1800’s did have 8mm adjusters as well .
These are not cheap but also not expensive ,the are high quality 10mm swivel feet adjusters . http://www.tp-technologie.de/produkte%20ventileinstellsch%20en.htm |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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Scat's Type 4 cams are on small base circles, so it'll affect the pushrod length.
_________________
"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 599
Location: CA, USA
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jhingen
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2020
Posts: 93
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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| Sorry for late reply, been traveling. Thanks all for the good advice. I will look into all of it. |
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jhingen
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2020
Posts: 93
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| jhingen wrote: |
| I have a new heads with valves, Scat C25 Cam along with new SCAT lube a lob lifters in my Type 4 Engine. Keeping the stock rockers/adjusters can I use the same removed pushrods or do I need to do the valve geometry and new rods to adjust? Thanks in advance for the input. |
You NEED to at least check geometry. The lifters and cams now are different enough that there will be changes at least half the time. Also the C25 is not,a stock cam so even more possibility.
Which type 4 is this? The 66mm 1.7L/1.8L crank or the 71mm 2.0L crank?
1.8
I have found that the 66mm crank engines are a little more susceptible to geometry change with an aftermarket cam change.
Also.....do yourself a favor and use solid rocker spacers. IIRC....they came from factory on 1.8s and 2.0 with hydro lifters.....and are a rock solid mod on all type 4. With the facyory 1.25 and 1.3 lift ratios.....a lot of the slop, noise, wear and geometry issuea come from the rockers rattling sideways on the shaft.
Even more so with after market, higher lift cams.
You can get solid spacer kits from AC.net and the type 4 store. While you are at it....ask them for a spare stock pushrod so you can make an adjustable checking pushrod to check geometry.
Yes.....the odds are good that you can use your stock pushrods.....but they are jist as good that you cant. With a new cam and lifters.....its 50/50.
Avoid rocker stand shims all you can. Avoid lashcaps. Use hardened valve stems.
Next great mod....swivel foot adjusters. They are not a crutch for setting up geometry....but they CAN paper over small geometry issues. Ray |
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jhingen
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2020
Posts: 93
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 New Cam and lifters |
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Great thread on your Cheap junk build. Full of great info! Thanks |
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