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Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project
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Bugeye54487
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
It ran off to Michigan Very Happy https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2500742

There's others advertised too, as well as a semi complete system for spare parts, at $125 it's worth investing in IMO. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2511924

Oddly your system is the 75/76 style (like the one in the ad), a 78 should have a mechanical EGR valve, and no TPS on the throttle body, slightly strange, but 49 state stuff got leftover parts even after the California models changed systems. It's possible it's stock, or it was swapped in during an engine transplant long ago, either system works fine, just be aware it's the earlier style.


The engine has documentation and is all oem @ 32k miles. Will that make a difference on the tins? I want new tins and fan housing. Seems non for this model going by 1978 model year. 12/77 production.
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TromBug
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
It ran off to Michigan Very Happy https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2500742

There's others advertised too, as well as a semi complete system for spare parts, at $125 it's worth investing in IMO. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2511924

Oddly your system is the 75/76 style (like the one in the ad), a 78 should have a mechanical EGR valve, and no TPS on the throttle body, slightly strange, but 49 state stuff got leftover parts even after the California models changed systems. It's possible it's stock, or it was swapped in during an engine transplant long ago, either system works fine, just be aware it's the earlier style.


Hey busdaddy, which part in the EGR looks different? Would the mechanical valve you’re talking about replace the vacuum canister that the green cable hooks up to? Asking because my ‘78 seems to have the same setup as OP’s:

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TromBug
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertable bug project Reply with quote

While the engine is out, I’d suggest having the injectors sent out to a place that will rebuild and flow test/match them. I sent my stock Bosch injectors to be rebuilt and I got a whole report back on the flow rates of them and details of the rebuild. Was very impressed. If I can recall where I sent them I’ll post it!

I also opted to keep the factory tins on the engine as I’ve heard horror stories about the fitment of aftermarket tins. However, I took them to a powder coat shop first that sandblasted them and re-coated them. I did them in black again to absorb the most heat. I’ve never had an overheating issue so far, even on a cross-Canada trip loaded right up!
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Bugeye54487
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
I'd remove that exhaust and clean everything up, the flanges will need work, and some of the support brackets have cracks, a little extra time now will make future work much less traumatic. Pull all the tin for a cleaning and mouse eviction, maybe replace the flywheel seal as well since you don't know it's age.

I have searched with no luck for support mounts! Might have to weld these up.
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Bugeye54487
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Have these vacuum lines from a TDI project. You think I can use them on the beetle?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Bugeye54487 wrote:
Have these vacuum lines from a TDI project. You think I can use them on the beetle?
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Those look like high quality silicone lines. If the ID is correct they should work, but they won't look "correct" if that matters to you.
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Lost69Convertible
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

If you want the “correct” stock look for vacuum hoses, I recommend BelMetric. I have links to the hose type, size, and clamps if you’re interested.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Bugeye54487 wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
I'd remove that exhaust and clean everything up, the flanges will need work, and some of the support brackets have cracks, a little extra time now will make future work much less traumatic. Pull all the tin for a cleaning and mouse eviction, maybe replace the flywheel seal as well since you don't know it's age.

I have searched with no luck for support mounts! Might have to weld these up.

Yeah, FI exhaust stuff is not available new, weld up the cracks, straighten the flanges, build up thin spots with weld and grind, or weld on replacements you make if they are really bad, mock it all up before the final deed though, everything has to line up.

Some of those pipes still have the insulating shells on them I see, nobody has proven the stuff inside them isn't asbestos, if you remove any of the shells use the appropriate precautions.
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Bugeye54487
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

How to remove this?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Seems to happen on most of them.

What is the technical name for this part? Goes to oil fill spout.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And finally thank you all for pushing me to look under tins.
I found this. Definitely a fire hazard.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
It ran off to Michigan Very Happy https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2500742

There's others advertised too, as well as a semi complete system for spare parts, at $125 it's worth investing in IMO. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2511924

Oddly your system is the 75/76 style (like the one in the ad), a 78 should have a mechanical EGR valve, and no TPS on the throttle body, slightly strange, but 49 state stuff got leftover parts even after the California models changed systems. It's possible it's stock, or it was swapped in during an engine transplant long ago, either system works fine, just be aware it's the earlier style.

I'm pretty sure only the California spec cars got the mechanical EGR (and a catalytic converter.) I had the vacuum operated system on my 49-state version '79 when I got it.

The EGR, decel valve, and vacuum retard distributor aren't needed on the L-jet unless you have an inspection to pass.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
It ran off to Michigan Very Happy https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2500742

There's others advertised too, as well as a semi complete system for spare parts, at $125 it's worth investing in IMO. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2511924

Oddly your system is the 75/76 style (like the one in the ad), a 78 should have a mechanical EGR valve, and no TPS on the throttle body, slightly strange, but 49 state stuff got leftover parts even after the California models changed systems. It's possible it's stock, or it was swapped in during an engine transplant long ago, either system works fine, just be aware it's the earlier style.

I'm pretty sure only the California spec cars got the mechanical EGR (and a catalytic converter.) I had the vacuum operated system on my 49-state version '79 when I got it.

The EGR, decel valve, and vacuum retard distributor aren't needed on the L-jet unless you have an inspection to pass.

Could be, I have more experience with the bus system, it went mechanical EGR in 77 for all states.

You are correct about being able to delete some stuff, but don't throw anything away, rules could change in the future and it may come in handy.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Bugeye54487 wrote:
How to remove this?
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Grind it flat to clean steel. Place a steel, non plated nut on top of it, centering the broken shaft with the new hole. Then break out the welder and weld the 2 together. While still red hot, take a hammer and hit it down a few times. Immediately take the appropriate sized socket and remove as normal.

EZ!
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Bugeye54487
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
EVfun wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
It ran off to Michigan Very Happy https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2500742

There's others advertised too, as well as a semi complete system for spare parts, at $125 it's worth investing in IMO. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2511924

Oddly your system is the 75/76 style (like the one in the ad), a 78 should have a mechanical EGR valve, and no TPS on the throttle body, slightly strange, but 49 state stuff got leftover parts even after the California models changed systems. It's possible it's stock, or it was swapped in during an engine transplant long ago, either system works fine, just be aware it's the earlier style.

I'm pretty sure only the California spec cars got the mechanical EGR (and a catalytic converter.) I had the vacuum operated system on my 49-state version '79 when I got it.

The EGR, decel valve, and vacuum retard distributor aren't needed on the L-jet unless you have an inspection to pass.

Could be, I have more experience with the bus system, it went mechanical EGR in 77 for all states.

You are correct about being able to delete some stuff, but don't throw anything away, rules could change in the future and it may come in handy.


Do I want to delete these items? Is there an advantage? Not sure where the car originated, but what you see is all stock guaranteed except the muffler.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Bugeye54487 wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
EVfun wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
It ran off to Michigan Very Happy https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2500742

There's others advertised too, as well as a semi complete system for spare parts, at $125 it's worth investing in IMO. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2511924

Oddly your system is the 75/76 style (like the one in the ad), a 78 should have a mechanical EGR valve, and no TPS on the throttle body, slightly strange, but 49 state stuff got leftover parts even after the California models changed systems. It's possible it's stock, or it was swapped in during an engine transplant long ago, either system works fine, just be aware it's the earlier style.

I'm pretty sure only the California spec cars got the mechanical EGR (and a catalytic converter.) I had the vacuum operated system on my 49-state version '79 when I got it.

The EGR, decel valve, and vacuum retard distributor aren't needed on the L-jet unless you have an inspection to pass.

Could be, I have more experience with the bus system, it went mechanical EGR in 77 for all states.

You are correct about being able to delete some stuff, but don't throw anything away, rules could change in the future and it may come in handy.


Do I want to delete these items? Is there an advantage? Not sure where the car originated, but what you see is all stock guaranteed except the muffler.

I wouldn't myself, EVfun had suggested it. They all play a part and work together in small ways, none of it robs power or economy, get everything working and set up correctly and it'll be an absolute joy to drive.
Send your distributor off to Bill now so it'll be done when it's time to put things back together: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2235472
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Lost69Convertible
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Without the Decel valve, the engine will be rich and prone to backfires when you lift off the throttle. In addition to backfires, my engine ran rough when I lifted off the throttle (Decel valve disconnected)

When I reconnected my Decel valve, with Busdaddy’s help thank you, the engine decelerated smooth and the backfires stopped.
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Bugeye54487
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Bugeye54487 wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
I'd remove that exhaust and clean everything up, the flanges will need work, and some of the support brackets have cracks, a little extra time now will make future work much less traumatic. Pull all the tin for a cleaning and mouse eviction, maybe replace the flywheel seal as well since you don't know it's age.

I have searched with no luck for support mounts! Might have to weld these up.

Yeah, FI exhaust stuff is not available new, weld up the cracks, straighten the flanges, build up thin spots with weld and grind, or weld on replacements you make if they are really bad, mock it all up before the final deed though, everything has to line up.


I ground and welded and ground and welded. Best I can do for amateur night! Lol
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

Lost69Convertible wrote:
Without the Decel valve, the engine will be rich and prone to backfires when you lift off the throttle. In addition to backfires, my engine ran rough when I lifted off the throttle (Decel valve disconnected)

When I reconnected my Decel valve, with Busdaddy’s help thank you, the engine decelerated smooth and the backfires stopped.


+1 - I agree that the decel valve and the vacuum retard help the FI engine run nice and smooth on throttle lift, and the engine comes down to idle more nicely I find.

However, I did delete my EGR filter - I don't actually think my car even had one when I first got it come to think. I was lucky enough to source a NOS FI muffler when I rebuilt my engine, so I capped the EGR outlet/inlet on the bottom side of the engine by the exhaust, but kept all the EGR bits on the top side of the engine so it would be complete, and also reversible if I ever want to source and reinstall the EGR filter component.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertable bug project Reply with quote

Maltboy! wrote:
Kudos for keeping the FI system. It makes me sad when I see a butchered engine that got converted to carbs. The FI works good and makes the car more drivable when tuned and fully functional.
Agreed 100 percent! It's an awesome, simple sytem. To the O.P. since the engine is out you've got it easy! Change every fuel line and vacuum hose...as well as the short hoses on the injectors!!! If the injectors have been sitting they may be stuck, it's a good time to have them rebuilt, and don't forget new injector seals. The L-Jetronic system won't tolerate any vacuum leaks. They won't run if a simple breather hose is left off the intake (I've seen this mistake with someone trying to bench run a new engine) Also as said above a new temp sensor #2 on the drivers side head is a good maintenance item, keep the old as an emergency spare if it still works. EDIT: I realized Busdaddy beat me to the advice! He's got grat advice as always!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

TromBug wrote:
Lost69Convertible wrote:
Without the Decel valve, the engine will be rich and prone to backfires when you lift off the throttle. In addition to backfires, my engine ran rough when I lifted off the throttle (Decel valve disconnected)

When I reconnected my Decel valve, with Busdaddy’s help thank you, the engine decelerated smooth and the backfires stopped.


+1 - I agree that the decel valve and the vacuum retard help the FI engine run nice and smooth on throttle lift, and the engine comes down to idle more nicely I find.

However, I did delete my EGR filter - I don't actually think my car even had one when I first got it come to think. I was lucky enough to source a NOS FI muffler when I rebuilt my engine, so I capped the EGR outlet/inlet on the bottom side of the engine by the exhaust, but kept all the EGR bits on the top side of the engine so it would be complete, and also reversible if I ever want to source and reinstall the EGR filter component.
Decell valve yes, it's a good idea to keep it. The vacuum retard on the other hand...NO. The car will idle smoother without it. Also many of the canisters now the retard side is bad anyway. Also always double check your max advance at 3000+ RPM. It's way more important than the idle setting!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Beginning of a 78 convertible bug project Reply with quote

In addition to changing all the fuel and vacuum lines I also recommend cleaning all the ground wires for the fuel injection. Theres even a ground wire near the left headlight ground that needs to be good for the fuel pump to work (ask me how I know).

I'm throwing in a picture of a pristine 79 bug I owned a while back with just 3200 miles on it. Yep thats what it looked like when new!

Heres a fuel hose kit I bought and used on my first build (in my signature). They also sell all or most of the vacuum hoses you need:

https://germansupply.com/fuel-hose-kit-fuel-injected-super-beetle-75-79.html


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