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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Smoking hot deal on this Ghia Tom and high performance engine build as well?! Fantastic.

Your going to have to learn how to use a third pedal though. Laughing

Just some autostick humor there, I couldn't resist. I know you can use a clutch. Wink
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

one more thing, your oil lines look very close to the exhaust pipe, I'd add a short length of heat shield to the oil lines and add a 'widget' to make sure they don't touch the exhaust. Fuel pump and oil cooler look fine from these pix though you may want to clip up the wiring a bit better.
I agree about the swivel feet on the rockers, the Gene Berg swivel feet or the Thorsten Pieper swivel feet are much better, last longer and are easier to adjust.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Excellent info, Rome, thank you for your keen observations. Yes, I avoided placing my jack under the sump and used proper jack stands. I'm a rookie when it comes to high performance engines and Ghias, but luckily I've been around the block a few times regarding other things VW.

Next I'll change the gas, fuel lines and oil and then fire it up to see how it runs. It turns easily. Nice tip on checking the pushrods before adjusting the valves.
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Rome
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Quote:
But what is this thing under the sump plate?

A bolt-on large capacity additional oil sump. General size is approx. 1.5 quarts.

Caution: don't be tempted to raise the rear of the car with a jack placed under the sump plate. Some sumps are not very strong and can collapse. Also, raising the rear of the car at the engine causes strain on the 2 rubber mounts that hold the back of the transmission to the steel support. That's at the joint where the flywheel is inside the transmission. Much better to run the jack farther forward under the frame, where the frame separates from the center spine to the "Y" forks that hold the front of the transmission. And ALWAYS support the raised car using jack stands before you get under it.

Cylinder head observations:
-Dual valve springs; implies a moderate camshaft
-Valve keeper ends ground slightly to create a small space as they grip around the valve end's grooves- good for a higher power application
-No direct telltale as to the head design
-Rocker chamber is clean which is good sign of PO maintenance and oil changes

Rocker shaft is bolt-together (good); rocker arm valve adjustment studs' ends at the valves have the "ball-type" Ford Courier tips. Frequently used for hi-po engines because the flat surface seen on the ball swivels inside the socket so that the flat surface contacts the flat end of the valve end more readily as the rocker makes its arc from fully closed to full lift. I personally don't like them at all. 30 yrs ago I bought my '77 Beetle on which the PO installed a strong 2110 cc engine. He had this style adjustment studs, and I found that the balls would rotate in their sockets as I tried to move the feeler gauge into the gap. I removed them, and installed a set of GeneBerg Porsche-style studs that have a different style of swivel ends which are called "elephant feet". $$ but you could easily and reliably get the feeler gauge into the gap.

Hold a small magnet to the shank of any of your pushrods (not to the tips). You want to determine if they are made of steel (usually chrome-moly) or aluminum. Makes a difference with your cold engine valve lash adjustment.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

I'm about an hour west of all of those places in PA.

I examined the engine today. I'm new to high performance engines, so be patient with me as I try to learn what I have here. First, I spot an external oil filter.
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Second, I spot an electric fuel pump and external oil cooler tucked up under the package tray (love seeing factory green paint!)
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But what is this thing under the sump plate?
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I also inspected the head but can't conclude anything. They are EMPI and the head has what looks to be a serial number. Any thoughts?
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The rocker is not factory. Never seen one like this:
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Also, not pictured, the valve cover has a vacuum line attached to it. This vacuum line runs into the engine compartment where it connects to a line to other valve cover, and then runs into the case. Is this some form of case ventilation system?

Thanks if anyone can chime in.
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

^ hey- quite the coincidence. How "central" are you in PA? In the past few years I've been to the VolksFest at the Mt. Hope Winery by Manheim, JuneBug near Reading, and a few car shows south-west of Allentown. You're probably west of those locations.

Yes, I've been to many of Classic VW Bugs' (Chris Vallone's VW resto business) events, from his open houses/informal gatherings which he had thru a few years ago; to some of his fall foliage cruises. I sometimes go there on my own just to try to get motivated again on all of my stalled VW projects, but that has not been effective.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Thanks for weighing in, Rome. It's been a quiet summer as far as the Ghia is concerned. My home insurance company visited my house last spring and told me to remove the old knob-and-tube electrical system by August 15th. So my summer was spend fishing Romex through holes in walls and then patching and painting those holes. The good news is that I've been daily driving my '70 all summer and just started chasing down a push rod issue on my '71.

I have made some progress on the Ghia. First, I sold all of the extra muffler and headers for pretty good prices. Subtracting that money from my original purchase price reduced my investment to below $500. Then I purchased most of the bumper parts (missing only the rear center blade) and about 80% of the chrome trim pieces. Still need the swan side mirror and the rear view mirror light and the front badge. I haven't made it to a swap meet yet but want to.

Great suggestions on painting the interior. I'll follow your advice to the tee.

It's going to a great project. I'll post updates on Samba. But it will be years instead of months. My next task is to fire up the engine. I want to confirm that it runs smooth enough. I'll check compression, etc Then I'll partially disassemble it just to see what it is - size etc . There are some very nice carbs and other accessories on it. Nice tip regarding reading the heads for clues. I might do that tomorrow.

I have family in Pearl River. Do you ever make it up to one of Chris Vallone's events?
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Last edited by Tom K. on Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

A few more observations:
- Your floor pans are indeed generic replacements. In the front sections they have the large curved groove going forwards and then back along the tunnel. This is for later Ghias that have the cable for the heater footwell outlet running in that groove.
- Tachometer: I find mine helpful. Though your current location down below the steering column is questionable because it is out of peripheral vision. Is the tach body shallow enough to relocate it to the top of the column? If not, consider removing the clock and mounting it in that hole. You could find a cheap, non-functioning stock clock, gut the assembly, then cut a hole in the faceplate so that the tach fits inside. You could even disassemble the tach and remove its face, then find numbers in the same size and font as the clock so that you'd glue them to the perimeter of the clock face in the same location as on the tach.
- Radio: This style radio does not need a faceplate, unlike on a Beetle from the 1960's which had a much wider dash opening. You need to find a radio in which the rectangular center section fits accurately through the dash opening. Looks about the size of a business card. Here's such a radio, though I don't know if a RetroSound modern radio is available with this style of front plate.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2525387
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Tom K, I just responded to your "pushrod" inquiry in another thread and saw your link to the Ghia. Then I saw/remembered that I already posted a response last year.

Have you done any more work, or assessment of your '65? Did you attend the VW meet at the Mt. Hope Winery near Manheim in late April, to look for Ghia parts?

Exhaust: yours is a "merged" header which has an unusually long "neck" that goes to the flange where the muffler is attached. You can buy more conventional headers that don't have this long neck. Have you taken off your valve covers to see if the heads have any numbers cast into them such as "044", so that you can determine if the heads have larger valves?

All that red in the interior: The already mentioned vinyl spray for the headliner is good advice. To do this, get a good brand such as SEM from a better FLAPS. SEM makes several colors of ivory and white. You can spray it on with the headliner in place, but:
-Do this in the spring on a warm day so that the red vinyl is warmed up
-Wash the vinyl with soap and water to get any surface dirt off. Swipe with a damp sponge.
-Carefully mask the entire interior off, especially the rubber weatherstrips that contact the headliner. The vinyl spray will stick to the rubber so that you want to mask the rubber entirely and carefully. You could try to pull the edges of the rubber down where it contacts the headliner and slip a rope such as clothesline in, to create a spacer where the rubber is held away from the vinyl. That will not only provide a better seal for the masking tape, but after the spray dries, you will have a clean line from the rubber.

You can also use a different color of the SEM to make your door panels 2-tone or a complete color change.

I used SEM white spray 30 yrs ago to blow over some smoker's stains on my '77 Beetle. Did not need to spray the entire headliner. I remember laying a thin sheet of painter's plastic over the entire interior because the spray can's mist will float all around the interior, fall down and touch everything.

Do you have a stock Ghia rear bumper? There are many slight changes from the early 60's thru '71, though any of that era will "fit".

Dimmer switch: Somebody correctly mentioned it is the right style for a '65. '66 went to the switch that was combined with the turn signal switch. But if you don't drive much at night, I'd keep that original switch. I've made it a habit to turn my headlights on even during the day, after a d!psh!t sideswiped my freshly painted Ghia on a local road's adjacent lane because 'he did not see me". That was in 1988.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
If you are on a budget you can buy Vinal spray paint to get rid of that awful red.


Haha, "awful red". Glad someone out there agrees. I might just give it a shot!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

As far as the mufflers are concerned list as local pick up or sell on Crags list as the shipping now days will void any sale when you find out it's $50 .00 to ship a used muffler. If you are on a budget you can buy Vinal spray paint to get rid of that awful red.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

arm rests, aftermarket.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...s=arm+rest
Samba classifieds to off the stuff you wont be using.
Look from inside to see where dash handle holes are. Find replacement in classifieds, pretty common.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2432582
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

long pole with white nob = hand brake release
dimmer switch looks correct to me
others will know more
great car
good luck
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Thanks, guys, for your tips and info. I spent a few hours with the Ghia yesterday. I'm still in the process of assessing things and acquiring missing items before paint stripping and metal work begins in the spring.

I am missing the exterior chrome 'scraper' trim along all four windows. Expensive stuff. I'm also missing the scuff sill plates. And I am missing the arm rests on the door cards. Is this stuff any cheaper at the VW shows relative to Samba?

My dash does not have the handle - I'm guessing the mounting holes were filled in for painting. I have not seen the grab handle for sale anywhere
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I removed a bunch of stuff. I'll start with what looks to be mostly good news. The package tray area looks pretty solid - this area usually rusts out in old beetles.
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The headliner is fine (if you like red)
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The floor pans look aftermarket to me, but the dogleg areas appear original and mostly solid. Some metal work will be needed but hopefully nothing too invasive. Note the extra wiring harness for the dash toys. Note also a blue paint behind the glue on the passenger side - a replacement piece for sure
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The heat tubes are intact - even the cable tubes are present and accounted for:
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The pop out windows work
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And the front crown section, when viewed from the inside, is largely unmolested although the lower metal probably needs replacing
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Here is the front hood (no spare tire)
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I guess I'm starting to feeling pretty good about this project - although I hope I don't get too cocky.

Some troubled areas for sure. First the spare tire well metal looks pretty bad - the big ugly hole is for the bumper bracket. The rest has POR 15 - I really hate finding that stuff.
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Second - I see an ugly sheet metal repair (see the corner?) when looking back from the quarter panel on the drivers side. I'll have to address that.
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I also have a few questions. First - is this switch, located to the left of the pedal cluster, for high beams? Factory?
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Second, with the door cards (also red - too much!) I found two arm rests. Factory?
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Third, with the door hardware is that long pole with a white knob. What is that for?
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Fourth, these rear seats and covers look original. Any value in trying to save these? Or is new upholstery the usual step?
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Finally, these unwanted mufflers were in the car. Is there a market for this stuff?
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Your engine lid is from a later Ghia such as '70 onwards. It has the plastic water tray under the vents. It also has a single hydraulic strut to hold it open, because your dual carb air cleaners would've contacted the two hood opening springs so that a PO removed the springs.

Also, your engine sheetmetal surround to the rear of the engine- which has those longitudinal ribs- is also from a later Ghia such as '67 onwards. So look for signs of crude welding on that panel. When VW started with the 1300 engine for the '66 model year, it had an oil bath air cleaner that hung to the right. The '65 Ghia still had the 1200 cc 40 hp engine and its air cleaner hung to the left, with the battery on the right. So for the '66, the battery was relocated to the left side of the engine bay. If your battery does not have rust underneath it, that would be an unexpected bonus. What I did for my '64 Ghia Cabrio's dual carbs was to relocate the battery to under the rear seat cushion in the location where it is on a Beetle. If you choose the battery size carefully (Group 42) the height still allows the seat cushion to sit almost fully down. Having the battery out of the engine compartment allows much better access to the right dual carb.

The '65 normally has a black pebble-grain vinyl dash cover with perforations for the radio grill. My '64 has its factory original cover. The separate radio grill was discontinued early in the '64 model year; my car was built in spring 1964 so that it's "late" in the model year and has that newer style.

You have the Ghia-correct knobs for the wiper and headlamps- another bonus. Your dash holes for the radio are original and uncut- quite a bonus. I would strongly recommend not to cut the dash to fit a new style radio that usually needs a larger rectangular opening. In all the 35+ years I've owned my Ghia, I rarely turn the radio on and prefer to listen to the engine and the driving sound. In my first years for building my engine I had some failures, so keeping the radio off let me hear the engine better. Embarassed Some people find a period-correct original style Ghia radio that fits the dash openings, and have the radio guts fitted for 12 V and modern components.

I suggest to keep your current engine, at least keep it in your possession if not using it for the car ultimately. My engine is a nearly stock 1600 dual-port with Weber 40 IDF dual carbs, and loves to run fast on the highway.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Welcome to the sickness!

good starting point and perfect year (I have a 65 also)

The 65 had a dash pad and you can get a fiberglass one from KGPR I think. I went with a painted dash as i like it better.

there is a dash grab handle (you might have cant tell)

tach- can convert clock to tach or ISP might have them now (often clock doesnt work well)

The pedal pads will pop off.

Radios are available in classifieds or you can go retro radio and i think they work

your horn and horn bar are correct for 65

wood shift knob was a popular swap (not original but looks nice)


floor mats are (?) available as well as sound deadening boards (look in the thread for the current source). Alot of people just use carpet - although i like floor mat better

Bumpers: source a set of used - there are year changes BTW, better than current stuff

and be sure to ask questions and look in Gallery for ideas

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Tom K. wrote:
Yes - I'll be sorting through everything including wiring, hoses, and fuel lines. This will be my first Ghia project.

I'm still slowly inspecting the car. Missing are both mirrors (don't rat-rodders need to see behind them?) and the sun visors. Mirrors are pricey I'm sure. The headliner is red (like everything else inside) and looks to be in good shape. But it looks nothing like a Beetle's headliner. I'll have to pull it off to add the sun visors and mirror, and probably replace with the stock look. Does the Ghia have a second dome light on one side in addition to the one by the mirror?

I found two beauty rings in the back. But they are the solid kind. Probably not original to the '65.


No need to pull the headliner (unless you want to) to find the sun visor/mirror mounting holes. Jut locate them with a small needle or pin. Mirrors arent cheap, prob 100-200 depending on condition and if you want to cobble one from parts. There are repop swan neck mirrors around $40ish.
Only the one dome light on the mirror.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Yes - I'll be sorting through everything including wiring, hoses, and fuel lines. This will be my first Ghia project.

I'm still slowly inspecting the car. Missing are both mirrors (don't rat-rodders need to see behind them?) and the sun visors. Mirrors are pricey I'm sure. The headliner is red (like everything else inside) and looks to be in good shape. But it looks nothing like a Beetle's headliner. I'll have to pull it off to add the sun visors and mirror, and probably replace with the stock look. Does the Ghia have a second dome light on one side in addition to the one by the mirror?

I found two beauty rings in the back. But they are the solid kind. Probably not original to the '65.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Do you see the KGPR add at the bottom of the page, just go to their parts catalog and look for trim pieces for doors for your year. Remember just make it your own don't worry about stock. If the car sat that long look for rust and dead gas sludge throughout the fuel system and drain and flush brake system and before you try to start it turn the motor over ccw two revolutions with a wrench on the front pulley to make sure it hydro locked which could bend a rod.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
Whats the overall goal? Return to stock, stock looking, modified? For me it's simpler to have a general plan to work towards.


Yes - a goal is important. I'm still working that out. I've driven beetle's since I was 16. I can inspect those and know immediately what's what. But I've never had a Ghia - never even ridden in a Ghia. I wasn't even planning to buy a Ghia. But I routinely scan Craigslist, and this one popped up for just $1,000 about an hour away. My Biden stimulus money had just hit my account the day before, so I grabbed the Ghia without thinking much. I liked that it was a '65. I thought I might just flip it. I've already sold some extra stuff that came with it - so I'm only $800 in at this point plus the cost of some recently purchased bumper pieces. A few have PM'd me asking to buy the performance engine (that I'm unlikely to want).

But now I'm hooked. These cars are beauties! My bugs suddenly look so plain and ordinary. My goal? Probably an 8/10 stock restoration. Only an 8/10 because I will be doing all of the work myself (I'm good enough but not great at body work - few are, right?). Only 8/10 because when it's done, I want to drive it every day except when the salt comes out here in PA. It will get its share of dings and spilled cups of coffee. But plans depend on how bad it is under that paint. It might be a 5/10 stock restoration if the body is already a total mess.

The nice couple that sold it to me included a second Ghia door to replace the door with those suicide holes (luckily only on the driver's side). But the door is from a later Ghia (indent under opening latch). I've had that door listed for sale here on Samba with no offers. So maybe I will sacrifice that door and cut pieces from it to fill those two holes rather than fabricate those intricate shapes - assuming they fit.

My problem is that I really don't know what is missing on this car. So, I'm hoping to submit to Samba more pictures of various sections of the car and learn what might be missing. Window and door trims in particular are a mystery to me.

Then I'll make my list and then dive into that paint to the great unknown.
_________________
'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=
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