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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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FROM JOHANNES PERSSON
=================
Brand new engine for my 1975 super beetle. Built in the fall last year but have not seen the roads or dyno till now. Dyno showed really great numbers earlier today.
Engine spec:
New mag case.
94mm bore
78.8mm stroke
Std length rods
Alu push rods
One of my super scilent split dur street cam.
1.25:1 rocker ratio
Ported and polished std heads with 40x35.5mm ss valves.
Single Oteva90
Ti retainer
10:1 comp ratio
009 distributor with ignitor
48idf Fajs
45mm Python header
Std weight fly wheel
Stage2 Kennedy pressure plate
Daykin disc
Schadeck 26mm pump
1.5 lit deep sump
Check out the wide power band.🏁😎
Mechanical it is dead scilent and perfect in tune, you can see from the lack of stand off from the stacks in comming video.
142.7kw at 6340rpm equals 194.07 corrected Din hp.
248.3Nm/179.43 foot pound of torque at 4980rpm.
Will post video!😊 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Cool!
I wanna see, hear this engine running.
By all means please post the video of it. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:05 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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This engine can be copied by anyone that wants a good street engine. |
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Paul Jr Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2018 Posts: 458 Location: PA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:28 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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What cam and more details for the heads please? |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3227 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:35 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Bad bug wrote: |
This engine can be copied by anyone that wants a good street engine. |
It could be copied, but I am pretty certain very few people in the rest of the world could duplicate it. JPM has a very different understanding of the heads/cam/compression/wave length tuning relationships than the rest of the VW world.
Even if you got JPM’s cam specs, building something similar to what is listed here with some ordinary 40x35 heads will probably be 40+hp short of his numbers.
I would also love to see the detailed numbers of the heads and cam.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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Paul Jr Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2018 Posts: 458 Location: PA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Brian_e wrote: |
Bad bug wrote: |
This engine can be copied by anyone that wants a good street engine. |
It could be copied, but I am pretty certain very few people in the rest of the world could duplicate it. JPM has a very different understanding of the heads/cam/compression/wave length tuning relationships than the rest of the VW world.
Even if you got JPM’s cam specs, building something similar to what is listed here with some ordinary 40x35 heads will probably be 40+hp short of his numbers.
I would also love to see the detailed numbers of the heads and cam.
Brian |
I would rather try and fail than to have never played the game at all!
When I fall or fail I will get back up and try again! |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:29 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Quote: |
Brand new engine for my 1975 super beetle. Built in the fall last year but have not seen the roads or dyno till now. Dyno showed really great numbers earlier today.
Engine spec:
New mag case.
94mm bore
78.8mm stroke
Std length rods
Alu push rods
One of my super scilent split dur street cam.
1.25:1 rocker ratio
Ported and polished std heads with 40x35.5mm ss valves.
Single Oteva90
Ti retainer
10:1 comp ratio
009 distributor with ignitor
48idf Fajs
45mm Python header
Std weight fly wheel
Stage2 Kennedy pressure plate
Daykin disc
Schadeck 26mm pump
1.5 lit deep sump
Check out the wide power band.🏁😎
Mechanical it is dead scilent and perfect in tune, you can see from the lack of stand off from the stacks in comming video.
142.7kw at 6340rpm equals 194.07 corrected Din hp.
248.3Nm/179.43 foot pound of torque at 4980rpm. |
Yeah nice sounding combo. Makes me wonder why so many of the builds here in the states lack power compared the builds like these.
Other than everything being tuned, I see a higher static CR than most go with, which means it probably has a cam with decent duration numbers. The higher cr makes up for power bellow the normal power band. Rpm is still mild. Stock based heads and stock weight flywheel is interesting. Just food for thought. _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3227 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:50 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
Yeah nice sounding combo. Makes me wonder why so many of the builds here in the states lack power compared the builds like these.
Other than everything being tuned, I see a higher static CR than most go with, which means it probably has a cam with decent duration numbers. |
There is WAY more to it than that. Most people in the VW community only use off the shelf heads, take a guess at a cam, run the compression low, jet it extra fat, and the figure it runs awesome. When really its a 2176cc making 120hp.
Johannes builds very specific heads just for that exact application. He understands how port volumes effect RPM, knows what kind of cross section he needs, and how much CFM is needed to hit a specific goal. These things are all based on math, but above most VW peoples heads.
Once he has the heads figured, he knows how to read the head flow data and can spec a perfect cam just for that application, and its power band.
Rather than using off the shelf manifolds and headers, he figures the wave lengths, and the intake and exhaust lengths are tuned to maximize ram filling and perfect scavenging.
It seems like a lot of math and minor details, but 10 little things that add 4hp each, add up to 40HP more over a normal parts assembler.
JPM is on a different level. He is 20 years ahead of the rest of the VW world.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Brian_e wrote: |
These things are all based on math, but above most VW peoples heads. Brian |
I am glad you mentioned this because some folks think doing the math on an engine is pointless.
I have spoken to johannes once and i think he is the best in our hobby. |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:17 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
Quote: |
Brand new engine for my 1975 super beetle. Built in the fall last year but have not seen the roads or dyno till now. Dyno showed really great numbers earlier today.
Engine spec:
New mag case.
94mm bore
78.8mm stroke
Std length rods
Alu push rods
One of my super scilent split dur street cam.
1.25:1 rocker ratio
Ported and polished std heads with 40x35.5mm ss valves.
Single Oteva90
Ti retainer
10:1 comp ratio
009 distributor with ignitor
48idf Fajs
45mm Python header
Std weight fly wheel
Stage2 Kennedy pressure plate
Daykin disc
Schadeck 26mm pump
1.5 lit deep sump
Check out the wide power band.🏁😎
Mechanical it is dead scilent and perfect in tune, you can see from the lack of stand off from the stacks in comming video.
142.7kw at 6340rpm equals 194.07 corrected Din hp.
248.3Nm/179.43 foot pound of torque at 4980rpm. |
Yeah nice sounding combo. Makes me wonder why so many of the builds here in the states lack power compared the builds like these.
Other than everything being tuned, I see a higher static CR than most go with, which means it probably has a cam with decent duration numbers. The higher cr makes up for power bellow the normal power band. Rpm is still mild. Stock based heads and stock weight flywheel is interesting. Just food for thought. |
I believe that small valves can make big power they are also easier to control. The cam on this engine i think is a split duration cam. |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Brian_e wrote: |
I would also love to see the detailed numbers of the heads and cam. Brian |
Yes this is the holy grail. I am going to talk to johannes again. I am curious as hell about this setup.
194 WHP and 179 ft/lbs of torque from 40 x 35.5 heads. Some guys struggle to make this even with 44 x 37.5 valves and if they make it the engine breaks a lot. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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With the current state of aftermarket 009 distributors, I wonder why it was picked over some of the more modern options. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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tucson vw Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2010 Posts: 10 Location: tucson ,arizona
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:43 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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So does that mean it made 194hp at the wheels. Very impressive ! |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:14 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Bad bug wrote: |
Brian_e wrote: |
I would also love to see the detailed numbers of the heads and cam. Brian |
Yes this is the holy grail. I am going to talk to johannes again. I am curious as hell about this setup.
194 WHP and 179 ft/lbs of torque from 40 x 35.5 heads. Some guys struggle to make this even with 44 x 37.5 valves and if they make it the engine breaks a lot. |
I thought this was flywheel horsepower, not WHP, just based on the description at the top of this thread. Is the 194hp ,in fact, at the wheels?
Ted |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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tucson vw wrote: |
So does that mean it made 194hp at the wheels. Very impressive ! |
It looks like it did just that. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7179 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4026 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Brian_e wrote: |
Chickensoup wrote: |
Yeah nice sounding combo. Makes me wonder why so many of the builds here in the states lack power compared the builds like these.
Other than everything being tuned, I see a higher static CR than most go with, which means it probably has a cam with decent duration numbers. |
There is WAY more to it than that. Most people in the VW community only use off the shelf heads, take a guess at a cam, run the compression low, jet it extra fat, and the figure it runs awesome. When really its a 2176cc making 120hp.
Johannes builds very specific heads just for that exact application. He understands how port volumes effect RPM, knows what kind of cross section he needs, and how much CFM is needed to hit a specific goal. These things are all based on math, but above most VW peoples heads.
Once he has the heads figured, he knows how to read the head flow data and can spec a perfect cam just for that application, and its power band.
Rather than using off the shelf manifolds and headers, he figures the wave lengths, and the intake and exhaust lengths are tuned to maximize ram filling and perfect scavenging.
It seems like a lot of math and minor details, but 10 little things that add 4hp each, add up to 40HP more over a normal parts assembler.
JPM is on a different level. He is 20 years ahead of the rest of the VW world.
Brian |
He is probably also 20 times on the price point.......I'm sure you can't get a set of his heads for 500-1000 bucks.......95 plus percent of VW peeps are too cheap to spend that. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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clonebug wrote: |
He is probably also 20 times on the price point.......I'm sure you can't get a set of his heads for 500-1000 bucks.......95 plus percent of VW peeps are too cheap to spend that. |
I have spent a 1000 plus on my panchitos. I am thinking if i should change my heads Johannes is definitely getting a call. I want to buy his king cover valve covers since i hate the bolton covers that i see online. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4026 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: LOVE THIS ENGINE |
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Bad bug wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
He is probably also 20 times on the price point.......I'm sure you can't get a set of his heads for 500-1000 bucks.......95 plus percent of VW peeps are too cheap to spend that. |
I have spent a 1000 plus on my panchitos. I am thinking if i should change my heads Johannes is definitely getting a call. I want to buy his king cover valve covers since i hate the bolton covers that i see online. |
I doubt $1000.00 is even going to come close to that set of heads he built for that engine........My guess would be more like $3000.00 plus not including shipping.....now add valve covers to it......
I've seen a set of Panchito's that weren't very impressive out of the box. In fact....I think they are sitting on the buyers shelf due to issues even though brand new.
Almost like my new set of DRD's that were a major disappointment........
I'd prefer to spend money fairly locally so I would probably get a set of SL-1 heads........but for now adding some boost is cheaper. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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